To think this is DD hinting that she is a lesbian?

[chisteck]

Hello, just curious really, as that's what I'm thinking.

DD is a massive feminist. She will spend hours debating with people. She said tonight that it's a shame she is attracted to men as she's never going to be keen on the way heterosexual relationships work (that women need to be wined and dined and be looked after, etc.) and thinks this will be a problem for future relationships.

I don't know, it seemed very much like she was hinting. It doesn't matter. I'm just wondering if I should ask her.

My dd is 14 and is the same but is not a lesbian as she has a boyfriend (he's not allowed to open the door for her or look after her as she's independent woman). I think a lot of girls are like this now, I'm a bit like it too though I secretly like to be bought flowers from time to time. I am a single mum, I work, pay my bills and do my own DIY, I can even catch spiders and remove them from the house , I am a strong believer that there's nothing a man can do that I can't do and that has probably rubbed off on my dd's.

Maybe the chief issue is that she is wistful that so far none of the young men she has encountered socially have themselves realised that women can be treated as equal human beings rather than as the recipient of a seduction routine. Has she been away to college/university yet? She may have opportunities to meet a wider variety of people there. Awful ones as well as decent obviously, but there's plenty of decent ones if you look in the right places.

Whenever I've been Studying as a Mature Student/working full time with children, me and the other Women have joked that we need a Wife, not a partner/husband, but a Wife (to help with the workload).

It isn't just the dynamics of a heterosexual relationship. It's being a heterosexual woman and Society putting you in the role of the gatekeeper of sex. "Easy/handed on a plate/ make him work for it" are all phases bandied about.

Look at the famous rape trails and the Harvey W cases, now, we are held responsible for 'our sexuality' and our past behaviour.

Whereas the Patriarchal Justice system and press love a promiscuous Lesbian, as long as they are reasonably attractive, that is.

Your DDs thinking is why a lot of older Women vow to stay single (not sexually inactive).

OP just speak to her about sticking with her principles.

Sorry, she's an ardent feminist and her main concern about heterosexual relationships is that a man might pay for her dinner or hold a door open for her? Oh to be young again!

Nope, if she is attracted to men she may be bi but unlikely to be a lesbian.

I don't think your daughter is a lesbian and she doesn't sound like she be pussyfooting around hinting if she was.

As an aside in my experience wining and dining is a thing of the past and men absolutely expect the bill to be split.....unfortunately that's where the commitment to equality seems to begin and end for a lot of them.

"Well definitely around here it's a thing that men pay the bill/offer you their coat/holds the door open for you/makes sure nothing that takes much effort is left to a woman. It's also a very popular view in her age group. I don't have an issue with a man being a gentleman though!"

Oh God. Tell her that not all men are patronising twonks. She needs to move to a big city asap.

Goodness! Do men really still "wine and dine" women and offer them their coats, open car doors etc nowadays? My DH clearly never got that memo!

Nor mine and he's a lot older than the OP's daughter.

OP I think that she's talking rot, but that there are much bigger issues in relationships in relation to equality. How does she want to be treated? She needs to have the confidence to expect and demand that, which is healthy imo. Too many women put up with sexist crap from men imo but it isn't a compulsory part if she finds a decent man who also believes in equality.

Where I am there's still some mild disbelief that I'm prepared to e.g. cut down a tree or move a filing cabinet. my neighbours (from multiple houses) tell me i need to get married, learn to accept a man's help, come and insist they carry something heavy that I'm moving (and then are surprised by how heavy it is!). It's not meant maliciously - it's frustrating but it's meant in the way that they want my life to be easier than it currently is, for me not to have to worry. I'm not in a rural area - so one doesn't have to go back to the fifties to find these beliefs! Was a bit of a shock hearing views like this though!

Can you please tell her that not all heterosexual relationships work like they do in fiction?
I was certainly never wined and dined. My husband and I planned nice dates for each other. If I invited him somewhere, I paid and vice-versa.
All relationships have their own dynamic. You just need to find the right person who matches your viewpoint

I think it means that she has very astutely picked up on the fact that she is going to have to work much harder at life and relationships than she really should have to.

It doesn't at all sound as if she is saying she is a lesbian.

Why do people have to read so much into everything these days? Not everything is about one's sexual identity. Sometimes one can just be musing on the facts of a situation.

Gay or not, I think the solution here is to not need to put everything into some kind of box, everywhere all the time.

I think she sounds like an intelligent, critically-thinking young woman who knows what she wants - you should be proud.

Where is around here 1955 ? Your Dd is thinking along the lines of i dont want to be like the people around here and has her own mind doesn't mean she is a lesbian

Yes men do 'vine and dine'.
That's the other side of expecting a full in patriarcal system when they will be waited on hands and feet in other areas. So when out and about, they are gentlemen who are oh ever so careful. But then it's OK if they are deciding where to eat, to decide which film to watch or if they will meet up at the weekend.

It can't be compared to a LT relationhsip where the 'wine and dine' will have gone a long time ago (but often the entitlement to rest will stay).
Actually reading threads in here (and on a personal level too), often what happens is that the ALL caring attitude is dying off but the entitlement is getting stronger and stronger as time goes.

OP I don't think yur dd says she is a lesbian. I think she has a dry mature look on things and is already bracing herself to dingth with her (future) partner in equality. And she is sort of daydreaming that, in a single sex relationhsip, this wouldn't happen as the two partners would start from an equal pov.
She is clue on. I hope she will stay that aware when she meets someone she is really falling in love with.

What's the problem? If she's worried about the dynamics of hetero relationships, then she should simply not engage in the dynamics she disapproves of and not date men who do. Or does she believe she's the powerless victim of relationship dynamics? If so, she needs to revisit all the feminist books she's read...

Note: appreciating a bunch flower or being invited for dinner doesn't make anyone a 'kept' woman who is wined and dined.
It's Ok too be given gifts out of kindness.
It's different when it's coming from the attitude that this is the way to treat women with the subtitle that takingnthem for granted is OK too.

The issue here is that the ACTION can be the same but the underlying MEANING is different.

Yes quite! Such an important point. I loved being treated by my partner. And I do lovely things for him too. We are in an equal relationship. He respects me, and I him.

And actually I don't think same sex relationships are automatically any more equal than heterosexual ones, although the relevant issues might be rather different.

I definitely wear the boots in my heterosexual relationship - them right man for her will fit with her needs.

This is a weird thread.

I don't think you should base your understanding of your children's sexual preferences off one remark, or indeed try to deduce them in this ridiculous way at all. She sounds like she is musing about relationships, and I don't think she would be expecting her one throw-away comment to either carry the weight of expectations about sexuality, or indeed to define how she feels about heterosexual men.

That's weird.

Even weirder is the idea that these things are set, and then revealed by throw-away remarks. There was an article in the paper just today showing women's sexuality to be fluid and to change over the decades, for some people anyway. So, what she said once at 19 isn't a defining thing for ever.

I don't think that 'going out to dinner' need be an expression of the patriarchy if you don't want it to, I've probably been out to dinner 100's of times in my life, it's one of life's real pleasures, eating good food and talking and flirting, pay half or take it in turns. No need to make a huge issue of it.

Finally- encourage her to leave your 'area', I don't know where it is, but she should definitely move somewhere to be exposed to and enjoy a whole other set of experiences- might or might not include dating women, we can't tell off one remark!

Definitely a lesbian.

All normal women love being looked after by men because we are the biologically lord-ordained weaker sex.

Also we need to be paid for because we don't understand money.

And we can't work doors and sometimes the handles make our gloves dirty.

She sounds like a visitor from the 1960s.

She won't have any kind of relationship with stereotypical views like this, or not with a decent man anyway. One just looking to get into her knickers may be prepared to put up with her ridiculous opinions.

She'll grow out of it.

Aw, Hully, how good to see you again! Only sorry I can't hold a door open for you- but you know, gloves and that... I'll see if I can send dh along.

OP, why on earth do you need to make guesses about your daughter's sexuality anyway: isn't it up to her to inform you of anything she wants you to know?

It sounds to me as if you are saying "I am the only one who knows how relationships ought to work and if my daughter thinks different that must be because of something fundamentally different about her, not because there might be more than one way of looking at things".

This is a 19yo we're talking about, she might actually know something about these matters out of her own observations and experience. She might actually do her own independent thinking because she has a brain and that's what they're designed for.

Also, as several posters have already pointed out, sexuality is a fluid thing for many people anyway. Our modern need to nail everybody down in one of two categories is there for historical reasons, not necessarily because that's how sexuality works. The younger generation, who have no memories of a time when homosexuality was illegal, and often little contact with traditional Christianity, don't necessarily feel the same need.

Your job as a mother is to listen sympathetically and intelligently to anything your dd wants to tell you of her own initiative, and be hospitable to anyone- of either sex- she might decide to bring home.

But surely if she doesn't want that sort of relationship with a man, then she wouldn't choose the type of man offering that kind of relationship.

hey cory, good to see you!