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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not invite FIL at xmas even though he'll be alone?

288 replies

Keepingthexmaspeace1 · 10/10/2017 12:16

Back story, me and FIL don't get along. We are civil and nice to each other and invite him to things etc but some of the things he's said are ones that will never ever be forgiven.

My family took him under their wing (MIL died 15 years ago) until eventually, last xmas the horrible things he said/did to me continued onto my family and they were fed up and said they no longer wanted him around as he was upsetting them all and no one could relax at family events for fear of who he was offending next.

The last straws were when he told my brothers wife she didn't know what she was talking about and to let him explain it in 'simple terms' and then proceeded to tell my grandmother after she'd spent all day cooking for him that his wife was a better cook than her and then told my sister to be quiet as the 'men were talking'

He gets angry about the fact he's not been invited in a few months, when he sees my mum says things like 'so you don't invite me anymore then', tells me that my family just don't understand him because he forgets we're a different 'breed' (he's very intelligent, as are my family but he doesn't seem to think so and thinks we're all idiots) he's never invited anyone to his house and constantly complains about my family!

Anyway, xmas has come up. For the last 6/7 years we've had him to my nans for the big family xmas but this year they've said they really don't want him there and tbh neither do I.

So my options are:

1- invite him anyway to keep the peace and deal with the fact that everyone will be miserable (this is what DH wants to do)

2- get one of his friends to invite him to theirs instead (we've asked BIL to invite him this year, he said no way and told FIL he was working - unlikely his friends will have him)

3- stay home and have xmas with just me, dp, ds and FIL and probably spend all day away from the family because I cannot be around him for that long but atleast the rest of my family don't have to suffer.

4- (my plan) he's invited for xmas eve dinner, tell him we will celebrate then with him and what he wants to do the next day is up to him and leave it as that.

I don't want to offend him, I know xmas is hard when your alone but he is really horrible. He's amazing with the kids and they love him and he has a great relationship with them but I just can't do it and it's ruining Christmas for me.

So AIBU to not invite him at xmas even though he's likely to be at home alone?

OP posts:
Tainbri · 12/10/2017 08:50

We have to do option 4 as DH's parents divorced, everyone hates each other etc etc. I seriously hate Christmas as it's walking on egg shells and angst all round!! I'd love to just go away, but DH won't have it.

Theresamayscough · 12/10/2017 08:56

If this was an obnoxious mil those saying put up and ignore might post differently.

Nasty old people were nasty young people once. No excuse. He needs to learn better behaviour

houghtonk76 · 12/10/2017 09:09

My parents are like this about my hubby. Staying there Brexit week with my 1 yr old was a nitemare.

An example RE: a job application "cos you don't speak Welsh - the Welsh are discriminatory". My MIL is Welsh - has been for the 19 years i've been welcome in her home!

Some people are just rude. Avoid where possible & see them on your own terms.

ChocolateChipCupcake · 12/10/2017 09:11

Was he always like this, or is it a relatively new thing? If it's newish, he may have some sort of diagnosable condition that affects the personality and makes him more aggressive. It would be good news if he has because he might get some medication for it

MiniMummy576 · 12/10/2017 10:10

@Keepingthexmaspeace1 Sorry, I haven't read the FT, but what are your DH's reasons behind wanting to have his Dad there at your Nan's house?

Holldstock1 · 12/10/2017 10:14

OP, I've read this thread with interest. Firstly can I just say that I think your family have been exceptionally kind and generous to help out your FIL in the way they have, and at the very least your DH should be very grateful that they have done so. They have demonstrated what Christmas is really about when you take a big dinner and presents out of it. But 6-7 years of having their Christmas and family get togethers ruined or made uncomfortable is a long time. I also think that you having years and years of your FIL picking on you - well you've shown the same generosity of spirit you've been brought up with. But equally you should not be expected to just be a sponge sucking up non stop abuse.

I think you & DH should be looking at the immediate here and now, Christmas this year, and what you should be doing in the longer term.

In the short term your DH needs to call his father out on the behaviour. He needs to take away your DF position of power - power he's built up by you and your family being too nice and considerate to draw attention to it, and power your DH has given him by not confronting him before.

It should be done from a position of love and concern for him that there is something wrong and he is worried about FIL. There must be something wrong for him to be behaving like this. He should cite examples illustrating how FIL has treated you and individual members of your family badly, and how you and your family have treated him in return - kindness, love and generosity. That way your FIL knows your DH knows exactly what has been going on and he can't fudge it. It should be made clear that as husband and wife you obviously have no secrets from each other. That he does love his DF but what is happening is not only upsetting to you and your family, but is extremely hurtful to DH as he loves you and he loves your family.

It should also be pointed out that:

a) you are his wife and mother of his children and so will always be first priority (as it should be) for your DH - no matter what the outcome. He doesn't want there to be irreparable rifts, he loves his DF - but his wife and children come first
b) you are FIL's daughter in law & mother of his GC - why wouldn't FIL treat you with respect? What is his problem? It is unacceptable.
c) your family who have only treated him with kindness and adopted him into their family should always be treated with respect, and unless he does so he cannot expect to be welcomed as a member of that family. Again what is his problem?
d) Your children are of an age/will soon be of an age, where they will / are noticing what FIL is saying to you, their mother which is a complete no no. They are also noticing how FIL is treating their aunts, uncles, grandmother etc etc and asking questions. These people may not be important to FIL, but they are blood relations to your children and just as important to them as FIL is. So this has to stop. If it doesn't then there will have to be restricted and supervised access.

DH wants everyone to move forward. FIL is his DF - he loves him, he and you are prepared to make a fresh start if DF acknowledges what has been going wrong and agrees to begin again. But that there must be demonstrable proof and change of attitude between now and Christmas.

With regards to Christmas this year, I would take the upper moral ground. I would see your family Christmas Eve and Boxing Day this year and invite FIL to you for Christmas Day (possibly also invite BIL & family). It should be made clear that spending time with him at Christmas this year is going to be dependant on how he behaves in the meantime. DH should make it clear that next Christmas you will at your family's for Christmas Day, and that at the moment because of how he has treated them, he is not invited. DH doesn't know if that can be changed - its up to FIL to make amends. You & DH may be able to help facilitate that, but things can no longer continue as they have been, there must be change.

He needs to be compassionate but firm about boundaries.

If things do not significantly improve then in the longer term, you and your DH should be talking about what the underlying issues are.

If it was me I would be asking these questions anyway:

1) Has he always been this offensive with you?? Even when your MIL was alive?? (it sounds as though it took a while for him to start being obnoxious to your family - seems to be progressive)

2) Why does your BIL not have him? And I don't mean the 'well I work at Christmas' excuse. I mean the real reason. Is he horrible to your BIL and his wife/partner and family? If he is, how long has that been going on?? Has he always been like that or is there a time period when he noticeably started getting really nasty?

3) Is he being horrible to you or your family in front of your children?? - are they witnessing this/at an age where they will be paying attention to what is being said??

4) What is he like with your DH? Does he make those sort of comments about your DH to your DH? - Is your DH so used to all the nasty comments that its become normalised??

5) What was your FIL like with your MIL? Did he treat her similiarly??

6) Does your DH think this is normal behaviour? If this was someone else who wasn't his DF behaving like this, what would he be thinking?

The reason why I ask about this is, if FIL behaviour has become markedly worse over the years, or if its really sparked off after losing your MIL, there may be a medical reason. He might have always been abit obnoxious, but sometimes certain illnesses can enhance different traits.

I'm not medical but I deal with older people alot including those with dementia. I've recently come across someone in their 90s who has just been diagnosed with the Behavioural Variant of Frontotemporal Dementia (FTD) which I haven't seen before. Its not like Alzheimer's with loss of memory. However FTD usually affects much younger people - I don't know your FIL's age. Behaviour can be really obnoxious, difficult, unpleasant and hurtful remarks, impulsive and tactless comments calling people stupid or telling them to be quiet etc etc.This sort of behaviour is really challenging and for family on the receiving end very upsetting.

I would recommend looking Behavioural Variant FTD up to see if they fit your FIL. But briefly symptoms include:
a) Loss of inhibitions, inappropriate, tactless actions or speech towards others
b)Loss of interest in people/things/loss motivation (but not sad)
c) Loss of sympathy/empathy towards others. Reduced humour or laugh at other's misfortunes - appears selfish and unfeeling
d) Repetitive, compulsive or ritualised behaviours inc repeated phrases, gestures, hoarding and obsessions with time keeping
e) crave sweet, fatty foods or carbs. Forget table manners.
f) struggle with planning, organising and making decisions.
g) Day to day memory & functioning will often be completely normal. Lack of insight of what is happening and lack of control over behaviour.

I don't know if any of the above fits with your FIL. Your description where he doesn't do it where your DH can witness makes me think that its possibly not FTD as it appears calculating and manipulative so I would err towards a MH problem, but I'm not medical. But in my line of work, when I come across someone (not necessarily always elderly) exhibiting certain traits and behaviours, I do a mental run through of possibilities of - Altzheimers, Vascular Dementia (brought on by mini strokes), FTD, Stroke, something neurological, Abuse, Depression, Autistic Spectrum or MH problems eg Narcissism, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder etc etc.

You, DH and BIL should be sitting down and really having a good talk about this. If it is something medical, firstly there could be treatment, support or help available, secondly and most importantly - if you know what you are really dealing with you will know what to expect and it helps to see the person's behaviour through the lens of illness rather than just being a horrible person. It might make your DH more willing to tackle your FIL if its an illness.

I can only imagine how difficult this is OP for you and for your DH, but the first thing that needs to be done is to take control back of the situation. You and your DH need to work together to support each other.

I hope it works out.

TeenageFanclubNOT · 12/10/2017 10:53

I've learnt over the years to zone out other people's bad manners. He's a lonely old man coming to the end of his life. He's witnessed wars and lost loved ones. Cant you just inwardly laugh at his old fashioned rudeness and see him as a man who has put up with the dramas of the world and become infected with moan. Use it as a joke, FIL is on one again, pour him a whiskey! There IS a nice way to approach this if you can revise your own thoughts about him.

StormTreader · 12/10/2017 11:35

Get people to say "Oh, Keepingthexmaspeace1 is doing the planning for xmas this year, you'll have to ask her what the plans are".

Let him feel the consequences of having a nasty little vendetta against someone who he thought was powerless.

StaplesCorner · 12/10/2017 12:23

He's witnessed wars and lost loved ones - (a) how do you know this and (b) yet again, if this is about age, what about members of OP's family who are elderly? Does he trump everyone?

Aeroflotgirl · 12/10/2017 12:37

Teenage you are totally missing the point! What about elderly members of op family then, haven't they got a right to have a nice Christmas, free of misery and nasty snipey remarks. Not all elderly are like this, some are very nice and kind, they have different life experiences. Not all elderly have witnessed wars, young people have also lost loved ones too, it does not give them carte blanche to behave in a horrible way. I suspect tiptoeing around him is doing no favours.

Fishface77 · 12/10/2017 15:36

I don't see why op and the DC should miss a Christmas with her family cus the fil is a cunt!

PoisonousSmurf · 12/10/2017 15:38

My dad is alone, but he HATES Xmas anyway and my brother will be in his bedsit, because my DH doesn't like him.
But at least we all get together on Boxing day Smile

Willow2017 · 12/10/2017 17:00

Being older doesn't give you the right to look down and vekurtme people who have the decency ti just you in Xmas day. He could live another 15 years are the ops family supposed to let him insult them that long?

I suspect he is on his own for a very good reason. Even his other son wants nothing to do with him at Xmas so why should ops family put up with him. Why isn't her granny an insensitive bully? Hmm cos being old doesn't automatically turn you into one.

Do not inflict him on you or your family again op. Have a great Xmas without him.

Willow2017 · 12/10/2017 17:01

Humiliate people ffs.

goose1964 · 12/10/2017 17:15

I'd invite him, with the caveat that he has to behave or he'll be asked to leave. I'm also with pp who said to answer him back, it's hard to bully someone who won't be bullied

doodle01 · 12/10/2017 17:18

Is he rich has he made a will may suffer it if yes

Mummyoflittledragon · 12/10/2017 17:29

Doodle
Wtf. Nope my mother is well off. I believe I’m still on the will. I’m low contact. I made a decision the stress and illness being around her is not worth the money even if it is in the 100’s of thousands.

Ginosaji · 12/10/2017 17:30

@Keepingthexmaspeace1 from what you have said it seems like he's the type who will make a huge fuss if things don't go his way, if so i would go with option 4, but change it to having your xmas celebration with him on boxing day rather than xmas eve

I only suggest this incase he makes a fuss when it comes to leaving and refuses to budge and/or tries to guilt trip you into letting him come after all, as with him already at yours xmas eve he may think you will find it harder to refuse

Even if this happened and you stood your ground as i really hope you would, he would still have kicked up a huge fuss and most likely caused a row which would put a dampener on your xmas day (which would prob be his intention)

At least if he comes boxing day and makes a fuss about missing xmas day, you will have already had your xmas day fun and it wont have been ruined Grin

Keepingthexmaspeace1 · 12/10/2017 19:26

Thank you everyone - sorry have just had a chance to read through the replies and reply.

R.e people suggesting MH/dementia issues, I don't think that's the case. He's always been a knob since I met him. He knows what he's doing, and the main thing as pointed out is my kids are coming to an age where they will notice what he says and I don't want them to ever think it's acceptable.

I had a talk with DH last night who agrees now (thanks to you all) it's not fair on my family and has also pointed out that my brother is unlikely to keep quiet this year and we don't want a full blown argument at xmas especially as me and my SIL will both be 34-38 weeks pregnant the stress isn't worth it.

He's asked his dad if he can book him a meal for xmas day, he declined but DH said that's his choice but he won't be joining us this year (apparently DH said 'you know why')

I've changed the invite to Boxing Day and have arranged with BIL to have a meal the Saturday pre xmas (23rd). BIL doesn't have an issue as such with FIL as he's not a cock to him or DH but can only take him in small doses and sees him maybe once a year.

I don't know what FIL will do xmas day, probably sit alone and refuse to go out so he can moan about it later but that's karma.

I have been so so stressed about it all, my nan would be devastated if we didn't come and I was trying so hard to please everyone so thank you all for making me see that I had a right to do this.

Who knows maybe my baby will come on xmas day and I won't have to address any of it?! WinkGrin

OP posts:
DartmoorDoughnut · 12/10/2017 19:28

Well handled Flowers

Mummyoflittledragon · 12/10/2017 19:28

That will be an elephant then! I thought you said you were due beginning November?

ilovemakkapakka · 12/10/2017 19:30

Excellent news Keeping, the best solution all around and best of luck with the new baby x

Csd17 · 12/10/2017 19:33

This situation sounds familiar except it’s my MIL. Last Christmas, despite differences, her miserable attitude and big blow out rows, we invited her to share in the big family Christmas because I didn’t want her to be alone, even though we don’t get on. Will he really make your whole family miserable? I doubt it. They surely just shouldn’t give him the opportunity. Play nice. It’s the season of good will.

Keepingthexmaspeace1 · 12/10/2017 19:34

Thank you! Flowers

No due in January unless you know something I don't, haha!

OP posts:
nameohnameohname · 12/10/2017 19:46

I was due in January and gave birth on Christmas Day. Be careful what you wish for!!

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