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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

How to stop brexit and make Britain great again

288 replies

SupportTheresaElseBoris · 09/10/2017 20:53

So Nick Clegg has a new book out called How to stop brexit and make Britain great again.

Aibu to think its time to just get on with brexit and stop this uncertainty? It didn't work for the lib Dems at the ellection and it now seems like dragging it on for as long as possible will make the worst of a bad situation.

OP posts:
Getout21 · 10/10/2017 10:13

I think we are now fucked either way. No one seems to have a clue. Having said that I do believe that even without Brexit we were heading for difficult economic times which will now be exacerbated.

maxthemartian · 10/10/2017 10:15

And BAE Systems have just axed 2000 jobs.
Strong and stable Grin

user1471448556 · 10/10/2017 10:18

For those who believe Brexit is a disaster but think there is nothing we can do but go through with it, despite all the evidence suggesting it will harm Britain - both economically and diplomatically - this is the time to make your feelings known. Article 50 is reversible and we can keep the same preferential deal we had IF we revoke it before March 2019. So write to your MP, join local pressure groups and get active, rather than aquiescing to a potentially disadvantageous future for all of us.

Isabella70 · 10/10/2017 10:18

Blahblahboo: I don't mean the ones who work, I mean the migrants who come and live on welfare and never get a job. That is the immigration we need to stop because it can't be supported

That can be stopped within the current rules, the government - and in particular Theresa May's Home Office - chose not to apply those rules.

Here its is:

"Migrant workers’ right to reside for more than three months remains subject to certain conditions, which vary depending on the citizen’s status: for EU citizens who are not workers or self-employed, the right of residence depends on their having sufficient resources not to become a burden on the host Member State’s social assistance system, and having sickness insurance. EU citizens acquire the right of permanent residence in the host Member State after a period of five years of uninterrupted legal residence."

farfallarocks · 10/10/2017 10:21

You do also realise that migration from outside the eu will not be affected. There is so much ignorance on the consequences of Brexit it makes me weep.

GretchenFranklin · 10/10/2017 10:24

I could literally fucking cry over the stupidity and futility of Brexit.

PlausibleSuit · 10/10/2017 10:29

This is my theory.

A large chunk of the press has spent the last couple of decades poking the EU wound with the public, stirring up a victim mentality and pointing people's blame in the wrong direction for decisions taken by our own government, at both national and local levels. The main reason they have done this, it seems, is because most of the big press proprietors see themselves as anti-establishment, small-state Thatcherite barrow boys who still get pissed off at being made to feel arriviste in Britain back in the 80s. The EU is too 'big government' for the likes of Murdoch, Desmond and Dacre. None of them have any levers of influence there.

Meanwhile, there has, since the late 90s, been a cultural movement towards pride in ignorance and lack of questioning. I think a significant locus point for this was Jade Goody on Big Brother but I could be wrong here. Suddenly, it was cool to loudly profess ignorance, to not question one's own thinking. An entire genre of television and online entertainment has grown out of this cultural shift.

It has allowed the atmosphere, stirred by UKIP, Trump and others, where how you feel is more important than what you think. It's then easier to maintain positions that don't stand up to rational analysis. That's why there is so much empty jingoistic nonsense around many of these positions.

Related to the above, immigration is an easy bogeyman for the press to point at because it very easily stirs up people's fear of 'other'. But the reason people can't get doctor's appointments is not because of immigration. It's because since the early 80s the government - of both colours - has squeezed all levels of healthcare funding, meaning surgeries struggle to expand, new doctors can't be hired and new hospitals can't be built.

Immigration is necessary economically and is never going to stop. And neither should it. Countries that are too suspicious of immigration turn into paranoid hermit nations, forever fearing the future. Governments talk a lot of shite about cultural enrichment but that's not why it is done. It is necessary, here, because fewer people are getting married and fewer couples have multiple children. And the sheer size of the baby boomer generation - a population bulge - means that an upswing in pension and healthcare costs needed to be planned for and paid for.

Brexit is a red herring and will not help most of the people that voted for it, as it seems to be primarily designed to foment and attract the kinds of businesses who dislike things like tax, regulations and fair wages and conditions for workers. But my main worry is that the anti-immigrant rhetoric will turn properly racist after Brexit leads to further economic problems, alongside increased immigration from other areas, as organisations can no longer source the resources they need from the EU. Then we really will see a rise in the fascist right.

PlausibleSuit · 10/10/2017 10:29

Sorry, didn't expect that brain fart to be quite as lengthy as it turned out to be.

Hermagsjesty · 10/10/2017 10:31

The time and political will wasted over Brecht is so depressing. Imagine if that time and political energy had been spent dealing with the actual issues (many of which underlined the leave vote). I absolutely believe there should be a chance to stop a no deal Brexit. 52%is such a tiny majority anyway - and how many of those would change their minds knowing the actual terms (or lack of them)?

Hermagsjesty · 10/10/2017 10:32

(My phone autocorrected Brexit to Brecht!! I feel like that might be some kind of metaphor...)

LinoleumBlownapart · 10/10/2017 10:34

*The 'Great' part of 'Great Britain' refers to it being the largest of the British Isles.

I don't like it when people use it jingoistically.*

Exactly, we have people making the decisions who don't even know the origin of the word ... that and the fact that when they say making Britain GREAT again they are refering to how Britain was when it was stealing from, enslaving and exploiting of half the world. A double whammy of ignorance. If that's not doomed I don't know what is.

user1471448556 · 10/10/2017 10:44

Good analysis Plausible. It's a sorry state of affairs ... but as I have said earlier, now is the time to get active and try to do something to stop this train wreck ... or at the very least, push for the least damaging exit. Write to your MPs. It's easy to do. Just search for 'write to them', tap in your postcode, and let them know how you feel.

Holliewantstobehot · 10/10/2017 10:51

But that type of immigration policy already exists. My ex is a non eu migrant and couldn't claim benefits for several years. Although even then he only claimed them extremely briefly and is now working for a blue light service contributing to our society.

EU migrants are not automatically entitled to benefits either. www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25134521

A wonderful German doctor treated my dd recently when she was in the middle of a serious asthma attack. Our local walk in centre has been cut back to one doctor from 2/3. The queues aren't because of immigration but cuntying back of the service.

Theworldisfullofidiots · 10/10/2017 10:56

I write to my mp and I get crap back. He is also blocked me on Twitter for politely disagreeing with him.

Holliewantstobehot · 10/10/2017 10:59

Ok croseed posts with lots of people there. Also *cutting back of services. But quite like the autocorrect on that.

As well as writing to your mp you can also write direct to the PM and other cabinet ministers. My dad used to enjoy doing this under the 90s tory government. He always got a letter back too.

user1471448556 · 10/10/2017 11:03

Sorry to hear about your MP, Theworld. As Hollie says, write to the PM instead. I've written to my MP 13 times now. Have also joined my local group, handed out leaflets, talked to people in the town centre, attended marches. I feel better for being active.

GretchenFranklin · 10/10/2017 11:09

But my main worry is that the anti-immigrant rhetoric will turn properly racist after Brexit leads to further economic problems, alongside increased immigration from other areas, as organisations can no longer source the resources they need from the EU. Then we really will see a rise in the fascist right.

yes yes yes

JayDot500 · 10/10/2017 11:10

@randomlygenerated

See, that just pisses me off all over again! The report must have yielded good news, or else why would they keep it all a secret?... oh, wait a second Angry

JayDot500 · 10/10/2017 11:14

Has anybody started fantasising about how the UK would look as a third world country? I confess I do, but I don't believe it'll get that bad... all this uncertainty is taking my mind places Blush

SupportTheresaElseBoris · 10/10/2017 11:14

I don't think writing to your mp does anything, I just get a copy and paste reply that basically says "I understand what you are saying, but you are wrong and there's X and y policy"

OP posts:
Theworldisfullofidiots · 10/10/2017 11:17

It's going to get pretty bad. Think Venezuela

marchin1984 · 10/10/2017 11:25

EU migrants are not automatically entitled to benefits either.

if you read the article you posted, while every headline in it says that it isn't easy to claim benefits, all the information in the article indicates it is. You just need to be "habitually resident" here.

And as we know, because of our very expensive housing, a lot of working families are eligible for benefits, including housing benefits. So, it's not necessary for the narrative of lazy europeans collecting benefits to be true for there to be a benefits issue. They could all be in work. Just like many resident families here are working and collecting a lot of benefits.

If you want to stop brexit, you best address the issues of why people are so unhappy with the EU. This is not only a british problem.

JayDot500 · 10/10/2017 11:28

@theworld

Venezuela definitely appears alongside my thoughts :(

Theworldisfullofidiots · 10/10/2017 11:32

Biggest recipients of benefits in the UK - pensioners.

user1471448556 · 10/10/2017 11:36

If writing to your MP is not working, write to your local newspaper. It may feel as though it's achieving nothing, but someone is having to process your emails/letters and the more that they receive, the more they may perceive that a significant number of people are distinctly unhappy with the way 'Brexit' is being handled.