Strip clubs & Stag dos

[NotInMyBackYard1]

DH went on a stag do in the summer, one night away at a weekend, obvs he came back tired and hungover but said he'd had a good time and didn't go to bed until 630am. I asked which bars stayed open until then but was told they do in Liverpool (?) obviously I am very naive!
Have since found out they were all at a lap dancing club without the stag - he'd gone to bed at midnight. AIBU to think he's bloody disgusting and to have lost all respect for him - for lying by omission and for visiting a lap dancing club in the first place.

I hope they get that closed down.

But you were revelling in strip clubs being "here to stay" and rubbing faces in the fact they and misogyny are still here with previous posts. Can you understand how frustrating that is when trying to explain their impact? I don't see how we can get it closed down. It's been there years, is part of a chain so has significant financial clout, the school, parents, even individual pupils and on top of them local residents all objected to its licence renewal and it was still granted again. And so girls continue to be demeaned by it daily. I hate strip clubs for doing this to our self-worth and causing upset for so many girls.

Yep, I'm glad they exist for the dancers, it's easy money and some of my friends would lose out without them. So I guess that is revelling in their existence yeah. It's not my job to quit dancing because some people are negatively effected by it. That's why I used the example about clothes shops before. It is well known that some clothes shops exploit children for cheap labour. Why aren't you boycotting all clothes shops and condemning every single person that works there or shops there?

Selective morals, we all have them.

I haven't mentioned anything to do with clothes, I'm talking about the negative impact of strip clubs on girls I know (and girls and women generally). More misrepresentation from you though as I've said nothing about women who work in strip clubs other than "I believe they choose to and often enjoy it", so thanks for that. Happy to engage with me when it's to mock or misrepresent. There we have it, I think you just don't care about girls being affected negatively but don't want to say it outright.

In fact your last post was just intended to attack me whilst refusing to engage with any of my actual points yet again (though were suddenly happy to engage with me again when you thought you could turn it into an attack on my "morals" or try to derail the subject again onto clothes shopping). No comment on or even condemnation of men going to strip clubs harassing teenage girls either. Telling. Not finding it so "creepy" to address me when it's to baselessly accuse me of "selective morals" because I despise strip clubs for how they make me and so many girls I know and know of feel.

"Why aren't you boycotting all clothes shops and condemning every single person that works there or shops there?"
Because it is perfectly possible to shop ethically and many of us do. It is not possible to use the sex industry ethically.
But, for what seems like the millionth time, this is not about the women, it is about the punters.

A couple of thoughts:

Nolove You are clearly a very articulate young woman who is passionately uncompromising about this. My concern is when you say every male you know thinks the same way as you.... Given the strength of your feelings on this, and you ability to make a powerful argument, I'd be wary that every man, or woman, who says they agree with you actually does... Some will just not want the mother of all arguments and pay lip service in the interests of keeping the peace. Give people the space to be honest with you, and you'll genuinely know who your allies are.

As for these clubs, railing against these as a whole, in particular the more regulated clubs, where dancers are genuinely there by choice and get good money, and which are properly policed to stop abuses, is an odd place to "man the barricades" in defence of women's rights.... Much of hardcore porn is much, much more of an issue in terms of exploitation and promoting misogynistic attitudes than these clubs where the power balance is much more equal, even tilted towards the woman. It's a bit like choosing to take issue with coffee drinking when seeking to take action against drugs (caffeine being a legal drug).

NoLove

You have done a sterling job debating this for 3 days solidly.

However you need to accept that sadly you can't convince everyone. Most of us would agree strip clubs are for losers and anyone who thinks they are ok are thick misogynists. I would just let it go though now, you must be exhausted.

coconutella thank you for the compliment. With regards to males I know, my dad definitely agrees having engaged with me a lot on misogyny as he continues to, the elder of my two brothers who's 15 has taken a lot on board and hopefully the other is doing as well. Boys I'm friends with I do believe are genuine - a couple of them are even part of a feminist society at a boys' school so very much challenge their peers on sexism! I think I generally debate fairly and disagree with friends on some issues at times of course.

In terms of the clubs I hope you'll understand if I don't reply in depth as I'm a bit tired out by this thread and do feel I've explained a lot why I'm against strip clubs. I am hugely against hardcore pornography and worried about the impact it's having and what many girls are feeling pressured to do because of it. Generally on misogyny I was "brought" if that's the word to feminism when I was 14 due to the most serious male violence against a friend so I very much understand and am aware of major issues, I wish I wasn't in this sense. There are many feminist issues I care hugely about.

I would add once more that as a girl (or woman) existing in a culture where we're seen as being there for the sexual gratification and entertainment of men makes me feel quite powerless. Thank you though for your positive words on me and putting your points across nicely!

MyrtleMaracas thank you and I am actually, it's tired me out and I shouldn't have let it distract me so much from things I actually should be doing. Should just hide it now!