To wonder why it's such a big deal to take children for dinner in the UK

[tinypop4]

Not originally from the UK- where I'm from it is totally normal to take children out in the eve.
Last night we had guests staying so we went for dinner at the local curry place. We took our dd who is almost 5 and our friends Dd who is almost 4. We went at 7pm, they behaved well- stayed at the table other than to go to the toilet, chatter, coloured, ate off the ordinary menu. They didn't shout, run around or cause any drama and we left at 9.15.
In the course of this 2 hours I had 4 different people telling me that it was 'very late for young children' 'they should be in bed' and one whispered loudly and in ear shot that it's 'cruel to have children out as late as 9pm'.

Now if they were over tired toddlers ,
Screaming, tantrumming etc I could understand if people might feel annoyed by their presence but in this case I didn't get it.

We were stared at a lot and were the only people out with children and despite having a nice calm evening, felt quite annoyed by the end. Why are children so unwelcome out in the evening here? Maybe I'm being unreasonable and children shouldn't come out in the evening but I think ta a shame

IME British people in general think children should be in bed very early. We keep late-ish hours and I don't think my children have ever been in bed before 8, but if the topic comes up in conversation lots of people are surprised and most people seem to have 7pm in mind as "bedtime".

I find it hard to believe people would actually pass comment. However as someone has already pointed out, British children tend to sleep earlier so if I saw a child under the age of 6/7 I would think being out after 8/8.30 is too late.
Children who are brought to restaurants in the evening and don't behave is a whole other matter. That really gets on my nerves.

My DD 9 was born in Spain and we lived in Madrid for 6 years before we came back to the UK and so she was brought up with late meal times, long afternoon breaks and a much more relaxed attitude to bedtimes.

Coming back to England we've had to adapt our routine not because I suddenly had an epiphany that DD should have dinner at 5pm and be in bed at 8pm but because the daily structure means it's the natural routine.

At 5pm in Spain kids are just finishing school, there's no way they'd be having dinner immediately (especially as they get older and have after school clubs/extra curricular classes etc), so it tends to be a couple of hours later at around 8pm (ish) and bed time is couple of hours after that at 10pm (ish).

In England kids tend to finish school around 3/3:30pm so having dinner a couple of hours after school is 5/5:30 and bedtime a couple of hours later is 7:30/8pm and the time is adjusted later as they get older and have more extra curricular activities.

Also going out to eat is totally normal from birth with kids in Spain, and so children just learn how to behave because it's a normal event like going to school or going to the shops ... unlike in England where kids being in a restaurant is something people seem to feel their children need to be "trained" for as it's a special event.

Nothing wrong with going out for dinner with small children as long as they don't start screaming or running around.

Sadly, quite a few do. And yes, they'll get tuts and people looking over meaningfully in the hope that the parents will either get the kids to be quiet or take them out. But of course, if they do so by giving them a tablet to play with, that's frowned upon too. Or even reading a book because how will they ever learn to converse politely if they sit at the table reading or colouring in all evening?

When ds was smaller, if we went out for dinner we tended to go out by 6/6.30 so we could be done by about 8 and get home. We are not night owls anyway, and I get hungry quite early. So even now we tend to go for 7pm or 7.30.

Personally I find some adults far more annoying than kids. They have a drink or two and then start being REALLY loud.

To the OP - there are some restaurants that have a sort of kid curfew on Friday and Saturday nights and ask parents with kids under about 6 to leave by 8pm. There is a pub near us that does and I've heard of it elsewhere, too, though not very often. I wonder if your curry house is generally only frequented by people with older kids?

Agree with Suburban. It's nothing wrong with putting dsc to bed early if it works for you and your dcs.
People judging others who don't, because it seems to be the thing in UK, is the part I don't like.

melj what a gross generalisation to say in the U.K. going to a restaurant is a special event kids need to be trained for. We've always gone to restaurants with the kids since babies it's just something we do as a family and the kids just see it as a normal thing.

Imagine if I said all Spanish kids are undisciplined and unruly as my FIL said about his nieces and nephews when they were younger. Your basing observations on your own limited point of reference which isn't fair to then extrapolate to a whole population

Never mind who did / said what or what the children had to eat.
What we really want to know is.....

What did they have to drink with the meal?
Everyone knows that if it was cola / fanta or any other fizzy drink, then their teeth will drop out, they will develop some kind of behavioural problem, someone will call the police and the social services will remove them to be adopted by a group of bohemian one legged, off grid hippies.

A huge number of people are obsessed with the idea that children should be in bed at 7pm and up at 7am. Our DD was more of a 10-10 gal and we got loads of comments about it when she was younger.

On holidays in the UK we've been told we can't take her in certain restaurants after 6/7/8 (pick a time, no consistency), which has been a pain.

OTOH I do appreciate that when you've gone to the effort of getting babysitters and gone out for a nice adult meal it is very frustrating to end up in earshot of someone else's kid, so I'm on the fence here

Baking I am British, I was brought up in the UK and in my experience a lot of people feel that restaurants are not the place for children unless they're specifically "child friendly".

Perhaps trained was a strong choice of word but in Spain children just go to restaurants and nobody worries that they won't be welcome because almost no restaurant makes children unwelcome ... in the UK how many times have people worried about taking their child to a restaurant or cafe because it wasn't "child friendly" or asked "AIBU to want to take DC to X restaurant?"?

In Spain restaurants have always been accommodating to me when I've gone with DD and she has never been treated any differently to an adult diner, but in the UK I have definitely been treated differently in restaurants when DD has been with me. Also I have noticed that children are treated differently in UK restaurants - in Spain if we are ordering individual meals my DD has always been asked about her meal choices, whereas in the UK waiting staff have almost always automatically asked me for my DD's choice instead of asking DD directly even though she is more than capable of giving them her order.

I think the early bedtimes thing is more to do with "getting our lives back" Which in my experience is a wholly British preoccupation.

I'm one of those loonies who actually does think it is

Sounds like you went to an establishment with rather rude and opinionated clientele.
I personally wouldn't have children out late as the norm, but that would be because it didn't fit my routine.
It's your choice. If you're happy and the children are happy screw what others think!
You enjoy evening meals out and the company of your family and friends x

I think it depends on the area, where I am, its not the 'done' thing for children to be out late, a lot of establishments have notices up informing customers that children under 12 are expected to be off the premises by 9pm, and those who dont have the signs, still tend to follow the local tradition.

So you would have been getting 'looks' and grumbles from locals after that time

Some common themes are emerging:
A British tendency towards earlier bedtimes, so eating earlier and families not out much later than 7pm
A tendency towards "family friendly" pubs and chain restaurants.

So the sight of a young family eating out slightly later in an ethnic based restaurant that's not serving bland "children's food" is a slightly unusual sight that can get the pearls being clutched by those who value early bedtimes on some random principle.

I've got night owls. Fortunately we've lived close to nursery and school, so it suits me that they're not up much before 7:30am. We eat towards 7:30-8pm so we can eat in one sitting as a family. When I worked, it wasn't practical to cook for much earlier than that anyway. (Bonus, no munchies after dinner as we're satisfied for the evening)

Chinese is our "safe" option when we go out, particularly when in unfamiliar places. The menu predictably has food that the DCs like and they find it novel in the way that food can be shared, possibly chopsticks, fortune cookies at the end etc. They're not adverse to Indian either although they're more enthused by the pickle tray than a mild Korma. I've tended to find that staff in privately owned restaurants are helpful and pleasant to us. We make sure that the DCs behave in a civilised way (or they are taken out for a walk), and we don't hang around longer than necessary and outstay the DCs boredom threshold.

Also going out to eat is totally normal from birth with kids in Spain, and so children just learn how to behave because it's a normal event like going to school or going to the shops ... unlike in England where kids being in a restaurant is something people seem to feel their children need to be "trained" for as it's a special event

bollocks bollocks bollocks. People take kids to restaurants all the time in the UK, wait for it.... from birth too!!! And guess what, they learn to behave just like they do in Spain / France ( but without the free ranging which seems to go on by 11pm in Spain)

I think it's down to this obsession we seem to have with babies and kids going to bed really early. I don't get it myself.

Just been away with the fam and the 2 sets of in-laws had their (toddler) kids going to bed at 6/7 but they were getting up at 5 or 6 in the morning! Who can be arsed to do that when on holiday!?

I get that people have to get up early for nursery / school but that's not every day.

You know what, the only time I've ever been made to feel unwelcome in a restaurant was in France. They took one look at us coming in with our 3 young boys, had a heated debate amongst themselves and then ( after we'd been seated) informed us we would be more "comfortable" in their private dining room. Worked out nice because we got the private dining room with the french doors looking out to sea; but what they really meant was everyone else in here is a middle aged couple and we don't want children in the main dining room.
Those wonderful continental dining places that are so much more welcoming to kids, eh?

My advice? Either "ethnic" or incredibly unmarket or incredibly downmarket. The middle market places and their customers can be a bit up themselves.

I wouldn't take children out that late to a restaurant. They might enjoy it , but that doesn't mean it's in their best interests.
I wouldn't comment but I would think you should pay for a sitter, so your dc can go to bed at a reasonable time.

bertrand We went to a lovely 2 michelin star restaurant once when one of the boys was only a few months old. They gave the 4 year the most incredible lobster risotto, and when the main course came, the owner insisted on taking the baby for a walk round the restaurant so i could eat my main course in peace. I also cried at how lovely she was,

almost cried, not also"

It’s not unusual for us, we took both kids out from the age of about 2 weeks. We don’t treat ourselves much except to meals now and again and we always take DD and DS.

Perhaps if they weren’t well behaved in public (not a stealth blast I promise, they can be shit heads at home) is not do it but they’re as good as gold!

*boast

We’ve had the odd snooty look but I ignore it. Some people think children shouldn’t mix with adults socially in any circumstance, I conclude that these people are weird so their annoyance at my children’s presence, despite their very good behaviour, is not my problem

British people don't like children very much. Look at their schools.