To wonder why it's such a big deal to take children for dinner in the UK

[tinypop4]

Not originally from the UK- where I'm from it is totally normal to take children out in the eve.
Last night we had guests staying so we went for dinner at the local curry place. We took our dd who is almost 5 and our friends Dd who is almost 4. We went at 7pm, they behaved well- stayed at the table other than to go to the toilet, chatter, coloured, ate off the ordinary menu. They didn't shout, run around or cause any drama and we left at 9.15.
In the course of this 2 hours I had 4 different people telling me that it was 'very late for young children' 'they should be in bed' and one whispered loudly and in ear shot that it's 'cruel to have children out as late as 9pm'.

Now if they were over tired toddlers ,
Screaming, tantrumming etc I could understand if people might feel annoyed by their presence but in this case I didn't get it.

We were stared at a lot and were the only people out with children and despite having a nice calm evening, felt quite annoyed by the end. Why are children so unwelcome out in the evening here? Maybe I'm being unreasonable and children shouldn't come out in the evening but I think ta a shame

I find this problem too OP, you aren't imagining it. I was born and brought up here in the uk but my DC were not and it's something they and I are struggling to adjust to. I've given up trying to follow the cultural norm of trying to get them in bed by 7.30, they just don't need it and are up by 5am latest if I manage. The whole siesta thing abroad a myth too Jesé days. No one I know had a siesta after normal napping age of about 2.5. We just go out when we feel and ignore the comments, which do happen despite what anyone says. My children like authentic Indian, greek and Spanish food so we don't tend to go places that are aimed at children but I do feel pressure to leave even though they sit quietly at the table. my 7 year old frequently complains though that she can't have the same fun we do when we go to visit her grandparents for a few weeks each year. She asks to move back most days!

You know why I don't like seeing kids out at 9pm? Because the children who go to sleep late still wake up at 7am, imo. Only they are only getting 9 hours sleep, vs. the children who are in bed at 7pm.l and are getting 12.

If toddlers who were kept up til 10pm really did sleep til 10am, then everyone would be doing it.

I know parents who send their kids to bed at 6pm after 'dinner' at 4.30 or 5, and then whinge that they're awake at 5am.

If I put my DS to bed at 6.30 he sleeps til 6.30. If I put him to bed at 9 he wakes at 5. Go figure. He's 18 months.

I have no desire whatsoever to take him out to a restaurant in the evening. He'd be crabby. I'd rather get a babysitter and have a nice meal out with my DH, ta very much.

Deadgood mine do lie in after a late night so ner
Obviously they only have proper late nights at the weekend. We took our youngest to a party last night. She was in bed by 10 and we woke her at 10am this morning after we'd had a leisurely shag, pot of tea and read the papers.
If she sprang up at 7am regardless we wouldn't keep her up, I concede that much.

It's a very British thing to have an early bedtime for kids. I was quite shocked when I first went to Portugal seeing babies up so late, but seems to be like that in other European countries too so don't think anything of it any more. I wouldn't let it bother you, just a slight cultural diference.

"If I put my DS to bed at 6.30 he sleeps til 6.30. If I put him to bed at 9 he wakes at 5."

Exactly demon

The thing is that all the people I know who put their kids to bed late, seem totally unaware that toddlers Can (and should) sleep for 12 hours a night. They just think it's normal that they go to bed at 10, and wake up at 7, like an adult would.

honey fair enough if yours does lie in after a late night. In that case you should carry on. (Please don't say 'leisurely shag' again though, my prudish self can't handle that kind of talk.)

I feel in this country we dont allow kids to be kids. They're always beinf told to be quiet, sit still etc. I can understand if they're running riot etc, but if they're well behaved I don't see the problem!! As soon as I go into a restaurant/cafe/anywhere with my dd people instantly look annoyed. But my DD is really well behaved and likes going out with Mummy. If she was being a nuisance I would leave, but what about the people being a nuisance to me trying to make me feel uncomfortable?? It pisses me off!

etc. I can understand if they're running riot etc, but if they're well behaved I don't see the problem!! As soon as I go into a restaurant/cafe/anywhere with my dd people instantly look annoyed.

IME kids being kids IS kids running riot. It would be extremely unnatural for my toddler to sit quietly in a restaurant. Hence why I don't take him.

Why does Spain seem to be the only country with "late" bedtime for kids? It happens all over the world, in fact I suspect the UK's widespread 7pm bedtime is the exception rather than the norm.

My kids were never in bed before 8pm (and that's being optimistic). At the moment, they are in bed between 8.30 and 9pm. DS (8) is usually up by 7.30, DD(4) gets up at 8-ish.
Where I come from, the typical working day is 9-6 or 10-7 but getting to and from work can take over an hour each way. So playgrounds (conveniently placed by blocks of flats) are buzzing with activity between 7 and 9pm as that's when all the dads (and some mums of course) are coming home, so the kids will stay out until then. It's not unusual for older kids to be out until 10-ish. School usually starts at 8.30am.

When I was growing up, the only regular kids' programme on telly was a 10-minute bedtime show starting at 8.45. The idea was that the kids would then brush their teeth and hop into bed at 9pm. The show is still going but the start time has been messed around with a lot. There's always YouTube, hey

I've been in restaurants in London with well behaved little kids and had comments as soon as it gets past 7pm. I remember one lady saying loudly to her older children about how she would never have took them out so late. (Mean bitch)
In contrast, have been to Italy and loved seeing kids out with their parents enjoying family time and waiters being friendly to the kids at 11/12pm.

Play nice mums! I have quoted this story before, but will again. In a pub on an August bank hol Monday with ex husband, 12-year-old son and dog. Place was rammed. Took so long to deliver dinner order, they then announced son had to be gone as no one under 18 allowed in pub post 7.30pm. I queried whether dog could stay. Yep he was fine. Make of that what you will.

We went at 7pm, they behaved well- stayed at the table other than to go to the toilet, chatter, coloured, ate off the ordinary menu. They didn't shout, run around or cause any drama and we left at 9.15.

As opposed to British kids who do the exact opposite?

Great Stealth post. Wel done you for being so amazing!

You know why I don't like seeing kids out at 9pm? Because the children who go to sleep late still wake up at 7am, imo. Only they are only getting 9 hours sleep, vs. the children who are in bed at 7pm.l and are getting 12.

That's fucking nonsense. Left to his own devices my DS likes to wake up around 9.30am. We have to leave for school at 9.30am and I literally dress him as he wakes and strap him in the car where I have his breakfast waiting for him to eat as we drive. If I put him to bed at 7pm, he'd lie there chattering and playing with his teddies for 3 hours until he fell asleep. People have different body clocks.

My child has never gone to bed at 7pm- British. It's been 9pm forever. He goes to bed at the same time as me on the weekend more often than not.
We eat out all the time, never given it a minutes thought. Weekdays wouldn't be out later than 9. Weekends might sometimes go out at 8. Holidays, whenever.
The whole of the UK is not obsessed with 7pm bedtime, that's a ridiculous thing to say.

As opposed to British kids who do the exact opposite?

Great Stealth post. Wel done you for being so amazing!

My children are British. I am not but my Dh is and my dc are. I explained how they behaved so the context was understood. 240 posts in and you're the first to accuse this of being a stealth boast...
And to address other points, on a school night dd is in bed by 7.30. At the weekend she is allowed to stay awake later if she wants - in these cases she wakes up later and if she doesn't, it's the weekend so she can relax the next day and go to bed early the next evening.
If she misbehaved or got tired I wouldn't take her so therefore completely understand those of you
Whose children wouldn't enjoy themselves and therefore need to stick to their early bedtimes.

A toddler might need 12 hours' sleep. But a 5 year old, 7, 9 year-old?

I too know someone who plonked her child in bed at 7pm, moaned that he was up at 5am, and refuse point blank to consider a later bedtime!

Believe it or not, London is not the whole of our country. Think people honestly think us Brits are all based in posh parts of London. Oh dear....reality check needed.

😂 A bit left field! Is this a standard anti-London rant that you squeeze in to any post, regardless of relevance?

I think people are being a bit mean here and making assumptions with little basis. OP I think you have been unlucky to have four people in a restaurant make these comments - were they mostly from the same group? I am a very strict parent - early bedtimes etc. However, now and again for special occasions you let the rules go. From 18mths my DCs would come with us to the village fireworks - not getting back till about 10pm. On holiday we'd eat out late together, and if we went to local pizza place, chances are we'd not be leave till 9ish. Never, ever have I had any comments, nor have we ever been the only parents with young children. I'm wondering what sort of restaurant you went to? Other than that I'd write it off as an aberrant event and forget about it.

In my experience my sons sat and ate without making a big noise and remained at the table unless going to the loo. The comnents usually come when children are noisy and permitted to run around the restaurant whilst the parents chat amongst themseves oblivious of their behaviour. Some families make such a mess as well! Maybe they feel it is acceptable which it isn't, but when going out to eat and why should people have to tolerate badly behaved children (and parents?).

It's great if your kids are well-behaved when you take them to restaurants. Mine usually are, they know how to behave while waiting, we haven't had any problems.

However, I'm not in the camp of 'kids should be seen seen and not heard in restaurants.' It's important that kids learn how to behave in restaurants, waiting for food and so on. If I see parents struggling, provided they're not just turning a blind eye and letting them run riot, then I kind of think they're trying to teach their kids how to do this restaurant thing!

It's probably better to try that kind of experiment during the daytime, but sometimes it's not possible with working parents etc.

Kids can be chatting happily, trying to engage with what's going on, but they're not going to be silent necessarily. Kids make more noise than adults usually! That's not 'bad behaviour' in my book.

I always notice this on 'kids in restaurants' threads; MN is usually quick to be non-judgey/tolerant of parenting styles, until it comes to eating out in the early evening, and then the tone is markedly different.

I've had this happen as my dd doesn't go to bed until ten and then wakes up at half seven. I wouldn't want her going to bed earlier as she'd get up around 5am. It doesn't stop the comments though!

my kids are never asleep at 7.30, and they do fine. If we take them out to eat, very rarely, but they behave, they sleep when they need to and wake when they are ready forcing them to try and sleep that early would be like starting world war three. Especialy as we are only home from work at 7.

Very unusual I'd say for folk to make comment about children being out at night. If they had been running about or shouting and crying then I personally would have been inclined to comment but on behaviour which may well have been due to late hour. One thing I absolutely hate is children running about in a restaurant. Those places that have play areas indoor have in my opinion encouraged children to expect to be able to get up and down from the table, make noise and generally be a nuisance to all and sundry. Of course parents enjoy them as they get away with not having to take charge of their children and make them develop table manners. Grump for the day and don't be put off taking children out at night, if they behave well.

To the pp that said stupider isn't a word...it is a word:

"Stupider is the comparative form of the adjective stupid. Because stupid is a two-syllable word, it’s comparative form can be created either by adding the suffix “-er” or by using more."