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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Thoughts on being a functioning heroin addict?

359 replies

marthaedensnumberplease · 29/09/2017 19:11

I have a friend - she is a mum of 3 kids with quite a large age gap between them:17,10,4. She "told" me tonight (I put 'told' in commas as it was the end-point of a long convo) that she has been smoking heroin since she has been a parent (she's 37 now) but only doing it once a fortnight, slash every 3 weeks, plus only smoking, never injecting. I have literally been round to this woman's house twice a week for the last five years for a bloody nice dinner .....and never guessed.

She has a very good job, a clean house, kids are lovely. She reckons there ARE people like her.

I think she said stuff like "never have guessed", "not like one thinks" as I bemusedly left.

She has the kind of life - relationship with kids, relationship with DH, success in jobs etc that I would envy. She said that "smoking the occasional bag privately" makes her feel better and able to be who she is

I don't even have an aibu. Just wondering if I'm being a shit with the judgements I previously had until today.

OP posts:
Elendon · 30/09/2017 18:40

Cigarettes are a well known cause of cancer.

Alcohol is also a well known cause of family breakdowns and severe social disorders.

LurkingHusband · 30/09/2017 18:41

cigarettes

kill how many a year. With one cigarette having enough nicotine to kill an adult.

and alcohol

as above. 70cl of Whisky can kill an adult.

however much you might like that to be

What I like is science and logic. Not ideology and hysteria.

reflexfaith · 30/09/2017 18:43

Nothing Logical about drug classification
It's all about winning votes isn't it
as David Nutt found out!

Viviennemary · 30/09/2017 18:48

Such a wholly irresponsible thing to do when you have young children. Not to mention it's illegal. I'd have nothing to do with her. Leave her to her fantasy life while it lasts.

KrytensNanobots · 30/09/2017 18:48

No hysteria from me. Just a healthy dose of common sense.
You can justify taking heroin whilst in charge of kids all you like if it makes you feel any better, but it'll never make it OK.
Justify having illegal drugs lying about around kids all you like if it makes you feel better.
Doesn't make you right though.

Elendon · 30/09/2017 18:50

I'm justifying nothing. I suspend judgement in this case.

KrytensNanobots · 30/09/2017 18:52

LurkingHusband you miss the blindingly obvious though (perhaps on purpose?) fact that a child finding a whisky bottle in a house IS NOT ILLEGAL.
Exposing them to class A drugs and smoking it around them most definitely is. Why should any child be exposed to heroin smoke in their own home? How would that ever not be a problem that potentially needs looking at?
Not to mention you're not exactly popping down to Tesco for the heroin, are you like you would be for your example of a bottle of whisky.
Yep, bringing your child into contact with drug dealers is a really sensible, not worrying thing to do at all. Oh, wait.... Hmm

Bubblebubblepop · 30/09/2017 19:03

I think you're getting a little bit carried away with the ILLEGAL bit. Yes, engaging in illegal and risky behaviour as a parent can have a negative outcome for your child. But SS aren't the police. Every drug user with children engages in illegal behaviour. You can't possibly imagine that SS are involved with all of them due to the illegality of the drugs?

Pengggwn · 30/09/2017 19:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BertieBotts · 30/09/2017 19:14

Quite she means that people seem to think that social services can magic children out of family situations which are imperfect but not awful and make everything better either with "support" for the parents (who of course would immediately be gushing with grace and happiness that social services offered this, and not defensive at all) or perhaps by removing children from the home that they know and are reasonably happy and settled and at-least-mediocrely looked after in and placing them with a nice infertile couple somewhere who will love and care for them and be perfect parents.

Or perhaps what's really meant is that they want/think social services will scare the parents into better behaviour and/or punish them for not conforming to some MN parenting standards people have made up in their heads, and that this will cause the parents to see the error of their ways and change and everything will be well again.

In reality - no. A social services investigation is terrifying, even if you don't think you've done anything wrong. It's basically a reminder that people exist who have the power to take your children away for good which is a very primal kind of fear. Scared people do not act in their own best interests as they tend to revert to instinct as the overload of adrenaline prevents rational thinking. Like the way that somebody might shout too loudly or even smack or shake a child who has just acted in a way which endangered their own or their siblings' life.

Social services are stretched and do not have endless resources to offer support. So even if somebody does not act defensively and angrily and is receptive to offers of help, the help offered is likely to fall far short of what is actually needed. It will not usually be extended long enough to be valuable and so it often does not actually solve the problem. There are certain situations where contacting SS for support might be helpful but I believe these are few and far between. Usually support is targeted towards families who are actually in danger of having children removed, since it can actually do more good here.

Additionally, most people don't see any problem with the way that they currently behave, otherwise they would change the way they behave. It takes introspective thought to change one's own beliefs and thought patterns and social services or their supportive resources do not have magical mind altering beams (which I'm sure we're glad of!) so it has to be a person's own decision to change. In most situations where social services is suggested on MN, this is not the most effective or efficient way to change someone's view, in fact because social services tend to be seen as a threat it's an especially ineffective way to change someone's views and the poster would be better off trying to support their friend themselves or point them towards services which might be able to help them in a more understanding way.

Lastly, yes social services can remove children, but this isn't like rehoming a dog because the owner doesn't have time to walk it properly and it is getting overweight. Children unlike dogs are human and humans form extremely complex bonds and attachments. The attachments children form in their early years are essential to their future development and breaking any attachment, even if it is not a healthy one, is harmful and causes damage to the child. Children who are removed from parents are almost never moved immediately to a permanent adoptive home as the best course of action would be that the parents make the necessary changes and the children can return. Which means that children in the care system are moved to foster homes, where they will have to adjust to being cared for by a complete stranger, will come into contact with other children who have been exposed to likely far worse things than they have themselves who could have extremely destructive or harmful behaviours. They are not able to be told by anybody what is happening to them long term which is hugely unsettling and of course most importantly of all they have absolutely no choice or say which must be terrifying, and which all together makes for a traumatic experience - again, trauma harms.

As the care procedures can be long and complicated children are often moved in and out of foster care, often between different foster homes which compounds the trauma and sense of loss especially if they form new attachments to have them broken again. Even if a child is both unlucky enough to be unable to return home and lucky enough to be approved for adoption very quickly, it's still a traumatic experience to be taken from everything you know and placed with strangers who you are expected to learn to love and attach to. It doesn't matter in this case how nice the new adoptive home or parents are (and I'm sure, adoptive parents aren't perfect, like any parents) or how poor the treatment or environment at the child's home was, the child is still out of control, still experiencing a loss and the experience is likely to be traumatic. As mentioned, most children involved in the care system are not this lucky.

In short, it harms children immensely to be removed from their birth families and placed with a new one, no matter how lovely the new family is. That is why this step is only taken in very extreme cases where the harm from staying in the birth family is likely to outweigh the harm caused by removal.

KrytensNanobots · 30/09/2017 19:15

Fact is, they're.m not legal. That means unregulated, fuck knows what's in it or how strong it is. To keep it in your home or consume it when you have children in your care is grossly negligent. I can't believe there are people here defending this. Those poor fucking kids.

Exactly.

StorminaBcup · 30/09/2017 19:18

There is nothing in the OP's post that states her friend smokes or keeps a stash in her home, or that she's around her children during or immediately after she has used. Not condoning what's going on but there are a lot of conclusions being jumped to.

Pengggwn · 30/09/2017 19:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Graphista · 30/09/2017 19:25

I would report to SS and I'm shocked and disappointed you won't.

Not only will she be incapable of caring for the children when she's high, there are the issues of who she's buying off, where is she keeping it, is she smoking around the children and therefore exposing them to it?

It is a HIGHLY addictive drug I have never met anyone who takes it who didn't become quickly addicted.

Never mind how would you feel if something happened to her - she's an adult and knows she's doing something harmful - what about if the 4 year old finds and ingests it - how will you feel then?

Graphista · 30/09/2017 19:26

Storminabcup those assumptions are because all to many of us have experienced or read of too many children who have suffered as a result of parents who care more about their addiction than their child.

Bubblebubblepop · 30/09/2017 19:43

STANDING OVATION FOR BERTIE Glitterball 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Brewdog · 30/09/2017 19:43

I couldn't associate myself with anyone who thought it was a good idea to take heroin 'recreationally' - it's not weed, it's an incredibly dangerous drug that ruins lives and kills people

x2boys · 30/09/2017 19:51

It does indeed Brew which is which don't believe for s minute the ops friend is only using energy two or three weeks .

x2boys · 30/09/2017 19:52

Is why *

x2boys · 30/09/2017 19:57

Every

BertramTheWalrus · 30/09/2017 20:05

Well said Bertie, you hit the nail on the head. Unfortunately, I don't think many posters will read your post because it's very long.

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 30/09/2017 20:17

Martha

There have been widely different responses here for sure !

I think you are best to educate yourself (offline) and watch and observe

You are closely placed to the family and if the wheels come off it's morally right to intervene , i.e. Not a busybody

I don't see her is evil incarnate but if something happens (death , divorce , illness) her usage could easily spiral

You will always get strong reactions on here and remember they are opinions only . Not the truth Flowers

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 30/09/2017 20:19

Bertie has articulated very well what I think

Thanks

DancingLedge · 30/09/2017 20:37

As so often, kudos to BertieBotts
Nuanced wisdom, and clearly experience.

There's so much can be learnt on MN, but some are more interested in venting.
Venting s great when you're letting off steam: but venting as judgement, about things you know next to nothing about, less so.

BertieBotts · 30/09/2017 20:51

Yeah, it ended up a lot longer than I intended.

Then here is a shorter one:- Posters who think this situation in particular should be reported to social services: What would you like or expect social services to do in order to safeguard these children?