Friend is pissed off with me, WIBU to correct her?

[teenytinypontypine]

It is a breastfeeding one, sorry.

Group of 4 of us female friends out for lunch. I have an almost three y o who I breastfed for 13 months and FWIW it was fucking agony wasn't easy for the first couple of months but I stuck it out and am pleased I did. Other friend "A" has a 5 month old who is FF. I don't care a jot. Feed your baby however you like.

Other two ladies are both currently pregnant, due within a few weeks of each other around Xmas time, and over lunch conversation turns to feeding.

Friend A says she really wanted to bf but couldn't. She said her milk didn't come in because she had an elcs, so baby was starving and unhappy and she had to give up. "How long did you try for?" asks pregnant friend - answer: 18 hours. Cue sympathetic tutting from pregnant friends about how hard that must have been.

So, I sort of couldn't help myself but explain that your milk usually doesn't come in at birth, but more usually a few days later. And that newborn stomachs are v little and hardly take any filling at all. And that newborns physiologically are prepared for mum's milk not coming in for a few days so usually do just fine. Oh and that people having a section usually can bf. And yes, I know there are some circumstances where these things aren't true, but in the main this is what happens.

"A" got visibly riled - reporting that her baby was much happier as soon as she got a bottle. I gave her a big grin and said that's fine and clearly she is a happy, growing little girl and doing perfectly well on formula. But I told her I thought it was only fair to point out to pregnant friends some basic facts about bf. Especially as I am a fucking doctor.

Basically, she feels that by correcting or questioning her version of events I am judging her for not trying for longer. On the contrary, I couldn't give a flying fuck what she does wrt feeding, but I do care that she is spreading misinformation to pregnant friends. I have a duty as a bloody doctor to not just sit by and let someone's opinion stand as fact when I know evidence to the contrary.

So WIBU to correct her like that? Should I have just nodded and smiled and caught my two pregnant friends later to give them a more balanced view?

AS we can see from this thread there is an awful lot of bullshit talked about it all.

I'm sick of people lying to justify their decisions either way. I mean, who the fuck cares how you feed your own kids? You, and thats pretty much it. So why lie and spread rubbish and get all "ooh you;re not allowed to tell the truth in front of me because I'll feel judged and upset".

So whatever you want, your opinions and decisions are your own. The facts are not yours to manipulate though.

In my experience, doctors (physicians, not the PhDs) somehow have a tone that might come across as a bit condescending in personal life. I think it is to do with the fact that you are trained to treat patients and make them feel assured. It works wonders in a surgery because of course it is professional and people want to feel someone has the authority over their disease. However, it looks a bit odd in private gatherings and that's unfortunate because I am sure it is not how you want it to be but it becomes second nature after doing it in your work life every single day.

The whole "I'm a fucking Doctor" thing is where you're BU. You're a Doctor. Not a breastfeeding expert.

I think this comment is unfair.

The Op may not be a BFing expert but she is well aware that people do expect GPs to be experts on allsorts of things - BFing included.

I think it's totally fair to point out that had she not said something people could have taken it as her agreeing and that she has aa responsibility to speak up.

And what does it matter if she's a BFing expert or not - what she said was true. What her friend said was not true, it was something she tells herself - or perhaps which a misinformed person tells her.

The defensiveness by FFers is unreal.

That tone aside, I would always listen to what a doctor is saying and ignore the rest as noise mainly. So I am hoping your other friends did the same. As for this particular friend who got upset, just talk to her and see where it goes?

Breast feeding being used to knock a mate isn't on.

I honestly don't understand how people can think like this.

How is pointing out THE TRUTH knocking a mate?

Would you rather more babies were formula fed out of ignorance (as opposed to informed choice) because we all have to tip toe round the feelings of FFers?

Surely the health of mothers and babies is more important than protecting grown women from possibly having hurt feelings by hearing the truth?

diddl it took days for my milk to come and when a nurse insisted on a small amount of formula i agreed and then was told off by my sister (not sure who was right there). After the milk came with the electric pump it was very hard to then get ds to latch on, he was glugging it from the bottle, and i wasn't very well, and had to go into hospital for them to check things, but once i was signed off fine again one of the specialist nurses told me she was going to get me feeding him properly - she said don't feed ds at all for at least 6 hours, so that he is absolutely starving and then put him on. I did and it worked. We were then discharged.

Can anyone help me understand why midwives push for formula in the first few days after birth if milk isn't in yet? I've never understood it. I was threatened several times with a syringe of f for my son 12 hours after a c-section. The latch was still hit and miss but he did get colostrum intermittently.

I think that the way you worded it in your OP was incredibly rude but you say you worded it better so just ring her and apologise.

"Can anyone help me understand why midwives push for formula in the first few days after birth if milk isn't in yet? "

Because we live in a formula feeding culture. Formula is the norm, and is easier for HCPs to deal with.

I just wonder why if a baby that a mother wants to bfeed but needs a feed before she can is bottle fed?

I thought it was important not to do this?

Even if Op's friend had wanted to bfeed when her milk came in-would she have been able to after bottle feeding?

When my DS was first born and screamed the night through and my milk wasn't seeming to satisy him - the midwife gave me a little cup of formula, enough just to fill him a bit but I think introducing a bottle so early is often the problem as once theyve had a taste for how much easier the milk comes through a bottle they can prefer it to breast.

Granted everyone deserves to know "the truth" but there are ways of delivering information without offending anyone.

You can start with "did the midwife not inform you that it is normal for your milk to take a few days to really come in?" That way you are immediately taking the blame from her and reassuring her she is normal. Even though this is what the OP meant I think the way it came across was "you failed because you didn't try hard enough".

Words are very powerful and this is clearly a very sensitive issue... being attentive to others' feelings is essential I think.

diddl you can get your baby to latch after bottle but it is hard work (i explained how we did it in my last post above).

I think the advice given by the staff on the post birth ward was not good, and much better advice was given by the staff on the maternity ward (as opposed to the post birth ward) and I think the difference was that the staff on the post birth ward were mainly temp and very demotivated. The staff on the maternity ward were amazing and i used to phone them from home for advice. I think they have stopped allowing that now though.

Sorry mogon-I posted before I read all of your post properly.

I'm glad that it worked for you.

Disney-yes, you've put it well.

Imagine if Op's had wanted to bfeed but then by the time her milk came in couldn't due to the initial bottle feeding?

How awful would she feel?

I think when bf has not worked out, some mums are pretty happy with the outcome and some are devestated. We all need to be sensitive to the devestated ones. But I will say that the amount of incorrect information that people who didn't manage to bf (this doesn't include people who chose to ff from the beginning) is terrible and some people constantly go around telling first time mothers who are yet to try this scientifically incorrect information. It's misleading and damaging to other people's attempts. And I hear it all the time. It's fine when they say it to me, I make the right noises and comfort them about the outcome, but if they are saying it as advice to a pregnant mum to be, it's hard not to step in. However, I wouldn't tear their story down but would have a quiet word with the mum to be after to put them straight on any completely incorrect facts.

At the end of the day it was supposed to be a group of friends having a chat over cake and coffee. A friend was relaying her experience, not given a lecture or demonstration. It's mildly insulting to think that your 2 pregnant friends wouldn't be able to recognise this as anecdotal experience of infant feeding as oppose to expert led advice.

For me, identifying yourself generically as a doctor lends no more weight to your argument (unless your speciality is obstetrics or such) as it doesn't automatically make you the authority on feeding. You were there in the capacity as a friend.

I can understand your need to be factual, but in this instance perhaps a little more tact could have been demonstrated.

Lucie8881

This exactly.

Exactly Lucie. That is it exactly.

Diddl, I was extremely ill after my first was born and didn't see him for several hours during which I had a transfusion etc. The nursery had my dh give him a bottle - I think no one knew at that point when if ever I would be feeding him. The paediatrician who saw him the following day was annoyed by that and yes it was very difficult to get him to latch but with the help of the nurses I finally did it. I don't know whether they had ever breastfed themselves (someone commented about this upthread) and honestly, I doubt if a woman who had easily breastfed would have been any use to me but these women had seen every type of hard to latch baby and tried everything including holding my breasts, shoving them into his mouth at the right time etc. Finally one fab woman got him to latch by rigging up a little syringe/tube of formula that dribbled into his mouth when I put him on the boob - as soon as he felt it, he latched on and we were fine. I still think fondly of those nurses 20 years on.

It's mildly insulting to think that your 2 pregnant friends wouldn't be able to recognise this as anecdotal experience of infant feeding as oppose to expert led advice.

What an odd attitide. You remind me of my MIL. On the rare occasion she looks after the DC if I say something like "DS needs reminding to use the toilet and DD is rrally fussy with food right now but I'm not fussed - whatever she eats is great. Cheese is always a hit".
MIL gets the hump and says "I'm sure We'll manage I have looked after children before you know"

Which I find bizarre - I'm not critiquing her childcare skills - I'm giving her soecific information on my DC to make het life easier.

I would find it much more insulting if a qualified medic friend sat back and let another friend give me bad advice that could seriously affect the health of my child and me without saying anything.

Are people's egos so fragile they value them more than their health?

I would find it much more insulting if a qualified medic friend sat back and let another friend give me bad advice that could seriously affect the health of my child and me without saying anything.

The woman didn't give any advice, good bad or indifferent. She related her own experience as she thought she had experienced it. At no point did she tell the other pregnant women how or when they should feed.

"The paediatrician who saw him the following day was annoyed by that"

So what were they supposed to do?

That's what I'm wondering.

My second wouldn't feed for long from me so I expressed (obviously that's no good when someone's milk hasn't come in) & cup fed as well as bfeeding.

I thought it was generally accepted in all areas of life that if someone says "I made a difficult choice SOME TIME AGO", and the ship has SAILED, you don't then say "Actually, the choice may have been wrong and if only I could have advised you then..."

There's nothing you can do to change the past other than make someone feel bad.

If she had said "I am thinking, currently, of quitting breastfeeding..." and you had some info, then by all means crack on.

Criticising the past? Always a shit move.

pallisers you are splitting hairs. The friend passed on misinformation that could lead to the pregnant mother and baby's health being affected if taken at face value and acted on.

I can rephrase it if you like.

I would find it much more insulting if a qualified medic friend sat back and let another pass on misinformation that could seriously affect the health of my child and me without saying anything.

Happy now?

Criticising the past? Always a shit move.

If just the two of them and the mother wasn't going to have any more DC then yes.

But with a pregnant, first time mum present, then you're making a decision that one friends who us more important than the other's health and the health of her unborn baby - which is a shitter move IMO.

That should say

then you're making a decision that one friend's EGO is more important than the other's health and the health of her unborn baby - which is a shitter move IMO.