Friend is pissed off with me, WIBU to correct her?

[teenytinypontypine]

It is a breastfeeding one, sorry.

Group of 4 of us female friends out for lunch. I have an almost three y o who I breastfed for 13 months and FWIW it was fucking agony wasn't easy for the first couple of months but I stuck it out and am pleased I did. Other friend "A" has a 5 month old who is FF. I don't care a jot. Feed your baby however you like.

Other two ladies are both currently pregnant, due within a few weeks of each other around Xmas time, and over lunch conversation turns to feeding.

Friend A says she really wanted to bf but couldn't. She said her milk didn't come in because she had an elcs, so baby was starving and unhappy and she had to give up. "How long did you try for?" asks pregnant friend - answer: 18 hours. Cue sympathetic tutting from pregnant friends about how hard that must have been.

So, I sort of couldn't help myself but explain that your milk usually doesn't come in at birth, but more usually a few days later. And that newborn stomachs are v little and hardly take any filling at all. And that newborns physiologically are prepared for mum's milk not coming in for a few days so usually do just fine. Oh and that people having a section usually can bf. And yes, I know there are some circumstances where these things aren't true, but in the main this is what happens.

"A" got visibly riled - reporting that her baby was much happier as soon as she got a bottle. I gave her a big grin and said that's fine and clearly she is a happy, growing little girl and doing perfectly well on formula. But I told her I thought it was only fair to point out to pregnant friends some basic facts about bf. Especially as I am a fucking doctor.

Basically, she feels that by correcting or questioning her version of events I am judging her for not trying for longer. On the contrary, I couldn't give a flying fuck what she does wrt feeding, but I do care that she is spreading misinformation to pregnant friends. I have a duty as a bloody doctor to not just sit by and let someone's opinion stand as fact when I know evidence to the contrary.

So WIBU to correct her like that? Should I have just nodded and smiled and caught my two pregnant friends later to give them a more balanced view?

Glad you have made peace with your friend.

I thought that your advice to the pregnant friends was well meaning but misleading from a medical perspective .

Two to three days may be the average length of time it takes for milk to come in. For some women, milk arrives much quicker and for some it takes longer.

When my son was born I was advised that my milk may not come in for a couple of days. I was advised to relax and let it happen and not to resort to formula.

I trusted the experts and I fed my baby constantly for three days and trusted that milk would come.

Baby developed dehydration and jaundice at 3 days old and had to be readmitted to hospital, fed through a nose tube etc etc. Horrible.

I've since read a lot about this. My experience is not unique. Before formula was invented babies were in danger if their mother's milk production was delayed due to physical or emotional trauma.

I think doctors should be advising mothers to breast feed but also advising that their babies will need extra milk if they are unable to produce milk within 48 hours (or 36 hours - whatever the research shows). We are lucky to have formula.

As a doctor you should be more aware than most that nothing is black and white when it comes to the human body. You will also be aware that a mean/average figure can be misleading.

Doctors are normally so cautious and measured when advising patients and quite rightly they give advice in terms of ranges (e.g. when discussing recovery times, life expectancy, possible side effects).

Oh, and nurses are usually the ones in uniform.

Doesn't matter whether nurse or doctor, both professionals in a caring role who should know better.
Way to overlook that though.
By OP saying "well people usually can bf" it can have come across as "well people usually manage, so why can't you?"
Not saying entirely rational thought process, but that's the way people can think when they're delicate and a new mum.
Some tact, common sense and just generally not "well I'm a fucking doctor so I know what I'm on about" attitude.

I'm great ty Stop
Remarried to an amazing man :) xx

"while your friend may be upset she needs to own her choices and be a grown up about them."

Well put.

So she didn't fancy breastfeeding/was too tired/didn't realise she could. All of these reasons are fine. Just say it though! Don't make stuff up.

The thing is OP that once you have a baby everyone likes to give you advice/ tell you what you should be doing / make you feel bad about what you're not going and you must NEVER say ANYTHING that might slightly contradict what anyone else is doing... to their face... even if you're right. Because they are VERY likely to get upset with you.
Got it?
Good.

I read that OP was saying that for full milk it can take a few days and that babies are OK on colustrum ? that was all

Fuck me poor DS1 sucked and sucked and her sucked so had he did the most noxious farts! And then after 3 days of hell they lifted like barrage balloons and then the fun really started

Why does no one fucking warn us !!!

I Have warned pregnant colleagues - I said if you really want to do it be prepared for (possibly) a few reallly hard few weeks . Sorry but no one warned me and I wish they had

Good rachie! I won't ask more ! Pleased for you

Is jaundice unusual? Both my DC had it, not life threatening luckily & midwives/HV seemed unconcerned. DC1 had it worse (thought he had inherited DH mediterranean skin ) & he had lost over the threshold of his birth weight so I wasn't discharged till a month had passed I recall. Looking back he was hungry but as a first time mum I didn't know this.

learn

But learn why wouldn't you just say it wasn't right for you due to personal reasons

I'm not learn obviously, but I can say if you do say this there is always, always someone out there who will insist on breast is best, insinuate that you're not doing right by ff(such as my post) and just won't let it drop as they know best.
All's well and good if you can but if you can't there's some sanctimonious, know it all horrible people out there.

krytens I said that, my point was if you use other reason it can still be questioned (as in the OPs example) & perhaps personal reasons might limit this.

I had two C Sections and breastfed with no problem. It took a few days for my proper milk to come in but I was okay with that because the way I look at it is the human race would have died out hundreds of thousands of years ago if babies ‘starved’ waiting a few days for mum’s milk to come in.

I once looked at the ingredients on a can of formula....WTF!

I'm with you OP, I BF twins for a year, but the first month was HELL but I preserved and ultimately I think I had an easier and cheaper time.
Although I genuinely think the children that were FF slept better and it's true that as adults no one has any idea who was formula fed and who was BF.
I think most people just want to feel they did the right thing for them at the time and they're not judged.

it is important to remember that the U.K. Is a country where most babies are formula fed.nothing wrong with formula feeding. But a lot wrong with characterizing women who do as a beleaguered minority. And a lot wrong with the narrative that you can't share bf knowledge or positive experiences because you might upset the sensibilities of formula feeders.
In the OP misinformation about bf was being passed on as fact to pregnant women. On what planet was it not the right thing to correct it?

*I had two C Sections and breastfed with no problem. It took a few days for my proper milk to come in but I was okay with that because the way I look at it is the human race would have died out hundreds of thousands of years ago if babies ‘starved’ waiting a few days for mum’s milk to come in.

I once looked at the ingredients on a can of formula....WTF*
Well yes, quite! :)

@Charolais I think you'll find that not too many years ago babies did indeed starve if the mothers milk did not come in and no one could wet nurse. Just like prior to C-sections everyone gave birth naturally just far far many more women and babies died doing it.

LOL @ 'can of formula ingredients'

Get over yourselves

I couldn't BF as had low supply issues and if any of my friends were as patronising as that with me, I would have told them to fuck off be quiet

You should have waited.

Another woman who couldn't be arsed to do what comes naturally
and a shite mum

Are you for real??

You should have just shut the fuck up rather than trying to make her feel bad and look stupid.

I despair at the comments in this thread saying OP shouldnt have spoken.

The reason less than 1 per cent of the population breastfeed is because we're now in a culture of where we cant learn from our mums, aunties, friends because no one does it.

The first few days with my first baby waiting for my milk to come in was petrifying because no one in my family breastfed and i even though i knew about colostrum from the very 'helpful' pamphlets given to you at every appointment, the reality of the situation is so different. Thank god i had a HV who helped me latch and pointed me in the direction of a good group.

Maybe the op's tact was off but breastfeeding should be talked about in friendship groups.

BF & its difficulties needs to be more widely discussed. Also FF are not shit mum's.

Hi OP, I'm a FTM and struggled to BF after an EMCS. Mainly because I was totally out of it and don't remember her being born or several hours after. She was out at 9:30am and my first memories are from around 6/7pm. DH told me a few midwives tried to hold DD to my breast but we were both in shock so we never got a latch. The lovely midwives kindly hand expressed my colostrum for me and combination fed my DD. Over the next few days we tried and tried to get a latch and we had loads of support on the ward but no luck. I was kindly lent the electeic pump to encourage my milk to come in and she now has almost exclusively breast milk but all from a bottle, she still will not latch.

What I can tell you from a similar perspective as your friend is that I felt like a terrible failure for a: not being able to give birth myself and b: not being able to feed my baby the way a mother is supposed to.

You made your friend feel challenged and as though she didn't try hard enough. 18 hours is a long time post birth and she probably felt as though she had done all she could and was exhausted.

As a doctor I would expect that you be more encouraging and supportive rather than seeing yourself as having to be 'informative' in a delicate situation like this. Breastfeeding is so personal that any advice you give now will probably be irrelevant anyway... every baby and mother is different and your pregnant friends will receive the support they need from their midwives as and when it is required.

As a doctor and a friend I think you let your friend down, I would certainly feel disheartened and judged if that had been me.

What a sad, sad thread full of blaming and shaming.

I had two C Sections and breastfed with no problem.

Bully for you. Well done and all that.

I once looked at the ingredients on a can of formula....WTF!

What purpose does that comment make apart from making those struggling with/unable to/feeling pressured to feel like shit?