Friend is pissed off with me, WIBU to correct her?

[teenytinypontypine]

It is a breastfeeding one, sorry.

Group of 4 of us female friends out for lunch. I have an almost three y o who I breastfed for 13 months and FWIW it was fucking agony wasn't easy for the first couple of months but I stuck it out and am pleased I did. Other friend "A" has a 5 month old who is FF. I don't care a jot. Feed your baby however you like.

Other two ladies are both currently pregnant, due within a few weeks of each other around Xmas time, and over lunch conversation turns to feeding.

Friend A says she really wanted to bf but couldn't. She said her milk didn't come in because she had an elcs, so baby was starving and unhappy and she had to give up. "How long did you try for?" asks pregnant friend - answer: 18 hours. Cue sympathetic tutting from pregnant friends about how hard that must have been.

So, I sort of couldn't help myself but explain that your milk usually doesn't come in at birth, but more usually a few days later. And that newborn stomachs are v little and hardly take any filling at all. And that newborns physiologically are prepared for mum's milk not coming in for a few days so usually do just fine. Oh and that people having a section usually can bf. And yes, I know there are some circumstances where these things aren't true, but in the main this is what happens.

"A" got visibly riled - reporting that her baby was much happier as soon as she got a bottle. I gave her a big grin and said that's fine and clearly she is a happy, growing little girl and doing perfectly well on formula. But I told her I thought it was only fair to point out to pregnant friends some basic facts about bf. Especially as I am a fucking doctor.

Basically, she feels that by correcting or questioning her version of events I am judging her for not trying for longer. On the contrary, I couldn't give a flying fuck what she does wrt feeding, but I do care that she is spreading misinformation to pregnant friends. I have a duty as a bloody doctor to not just sit by and let someone's opinion stand as fact when I know evidence to the contrary.

So WIBU to correct her like that? Should I have just nodded and smiled and caught my two pregnant friends later to give them a more balanced view?

[existentialmoment]

Friends should tell friends the truth. The dr bit is of no matter, you can't sit there and let someone tell pregnant women complete lies about breastfeeding.

[redfairy]

I think you should have been a friend first and been kinder and more measured. And I gather your friends have their own health professionals to advise them.

[Racingraccoons]

I don’t see a problem with that you said. You were just being factual. She seems slightly over sensitive.

[ringle]

Well done feralberyl's dh!

[Bubblebubblepop]

Really surprised at the experiance in hospital some of you have and expect

Our hospital is "breastfeeding friendly" - some form of accreditation- and the midwives and staff as a rule only supported and assisted with Bf. We were told clearly from the hospital tour onwards that they would not assist with "artificial feeding" and the mother would be expected to deal with this alone (something I saw in action on the post c section ward)

This is with the exception of serious ill mothers or babies I assume, and formula was available for medical reasons only.

Once I left I could get help with BF but I did have to ask. I called every passing midwife to look at the latch. I asked the community Midwives to check on day 3 and 5 visits. I attended baby and BF clinics regularly, sometimes daily, but i often had to travel some distance to these and ask for help as they were in a different children's centre each day

I also used the NCt and national breastfeeding helpline. I found you do have to ask but there is no end of support available. The hospital post natal ward was shockingly and but I basically harassed them to make sure we were doing ok.

I knew well before I went in that my baby wouldn't need substantial feeding for quite some time, as they had been nourished by the placenta. That I had time to get skin to skin and learn how to latch/ or get her latched on by midwives. I knew my milk wouldn't arrive for days. I knew I could and would refuse formula.

[FeralBeryl]

Someone upthread asked about why so many HCPs are so quick to suggest formula if breastfeeding isn't instantaneous.

Speaking to many colleagues, and from multiple experience, it's sadly just another symptom of our struggling NHS.
Beds are needed, resources are tight. Babies are discharged once they pass their checks/are feeding. 'Mum and baby doing well' bollocks.
Far more rapid to give a bottle, tick a box, reduce the risk of jaundice then home and forgotten 24hours after my last CS of course she wasn't fucking feeding properly.

I'm firmly in the your choice, do not make others feel shit category.

I wanted to BF, it was important to me but fuck me I struggled.
If DH hadn't have been so helpful syringing tiny drops of milk from my gargantuan dinner plate nipples, I'd have definitely have gone for a bottle.
It's about realising that that would not have been my choice though. There was no one willing to help me other than him.
They were simply too busy. The culture is not set up for BFing.

[KarateKitten]

Pallusers, you have to recognise though that the woman describing her experience did inadvertently give misinformation. I know of a mum who gave up on bf despite being desperate to do it because shockingly their midwife told them the morning after baby's birth 'aw, you don't seem to have a supply. Some people don't have one. Don't feel bad you can ff'. And I know of many many mums who go around telling everyone including pregnant first time mums 'I didn't have a supply, some people don't. It just happens'. So when those new mums are faced with the stress and difficulty of knowing if their newborn is getting enough, they stop thinking they don't have a supply and baby is suffering. Because that's what they've heard over and over from other mums. The truth is that latches and bf is usually very difficult at first but nobody has a supply, the baby has to make that supply. And the amount of women going around saying they didn't have a supply so therefore they had to bottlefeed is quite significant and definitely has an impact on others.

[NoMoreNotToday]

I think correctong misinformation about bf is hugely important.

You are right that colostrum is enough for the first few days (milk does come in later for some of us, especially after a hemorage) but colostrum is enough only when the baby is managing to remove it effectively enough. Some babies will latch so poorly that they wont get the colostrum to come down, some have really akward pallet height that makes this difficult, some tongue ties prevent removong milk effectively, some prem babies wont have the energy to feed effectively enough to get enough calories, and sometimes there are conditions that inhibit mums let down reflex. None of which mean going straight to the formula bottle is the only option, colostrum can be expressed and siringe fed (although expressing doesn't work for everyone).

So it is great you communicated the general facts about those first few days but maybe add the rarer circumstances would help your friends know more &give your other friend an 'easy out' whether or not they were reality in her case. I know that's not so simple in the middle of the conversation and imparting an encyclipidia on bf is never fun or helpful but worth bearing in mind.

On zero hours sleep here so apologies for the typos.

[Pearl87]

I can't believe the number of adults who think "Can you pick out the breastfed kids in your child's clas from the formula-fed ones?" is a good argument You can't usually gain a comprehensive understanding of someone's health just by looking at them, FFS!

butyoudontlooksick.com/

[pallisers]

I'm not splitting hairs. Because of course anyone will correct someone who states something as fact when it isn't and might be dangerous. This wasn't the case here. Nor was it misinformation - it was a woman describing what she had experienced - or thought she had experienced. Presumably she genuinely thought her milk wasn't coming in. Either that or she didn't feel confident enough to say she wanted to formula feed in front of her friends (which kind of puts the lie to the idea that there is a vast conspiracy of propaganda around formula feeding).

The woman gave an anecdote about her own life and was corrected publicly by her friend. It wasn't the crime of the century but in my opinion it was smug and unnecessary. The OP asked AIBU. I think she was. And I do think it is fairly dismissive of the intelligence and judgement of the friends for the OP to think she needed to rush in and explain the real "facts' for fear the silly dears would make bad decisions about breastfeeding based on one anecdote from a friend described over a cup of coffee months before. Most women give it a bit more thought than that.

And I'm laughing at the "won't anyone think of the health of the babies" laments. Good job OP is out there saving babies from ... whatever.

[invisiblecats]

That should say

then you're making a decision that one friend's EGO is more important than the other's health and the health of her unborn baby - which is a shitter move IMO.

[invisiblecats]

Criticising the past? Always a shit move.

If just the two of them and the mother wasn't going to have any more DC then yes.

But with a pregnant, first time mum present, then you're making a decision that one friends who us more important than the other's health and the health of her unborn baby - which is a shitter move IMO.

[invisiblecats]

pallisers you are splitting hairs. The friend passed on misinformation that could lead to the pregnant mother and baby's health being affected if taken at face value and acted on.

I can rephrase it if you like.

I would find it much more insulting if a qualified medic friend sat back and let another pass on misinformation that could seriously affect the health of my child and me without saying anything.

Happy now?

[CobwebKitten]

I thought it was generally accepted in all areas of life that if someone says "I made a difficult choice SOME TIME AGO", and the ship has SAILED, you don't then say "Actually, the choice may have been wrong and if only I could have advised you then..."

There's nothing you can do to change the past other than make someone feel bad.

If she had said "I am thinking, currently, of quitting breastfeeding..." and you had some info, then by all means crack on.

Criticising the past? Always a shit move.

[diddl]

"The paediatrician who saw him the following day was annoyed by that"

So what were they supposed to do?

That's what I'm wondering.

My second wouldn't feed for long from me so I expressed (obviously that's no good when someone's milk hasn't come in) & cup fed as well as bfeeding.

[pallisers]

I would find it much more insulting if a qualified medic friend sat back and let another friend give me bad advice that could seriously affect the health of my child and me without saying anything.

The woman didn't give any advice, good bad or indifferent. She related her own experience as she thought she had experienced it. At no point did she tell the other pregnant women how or when they should feed.

[invisiblecats]

It's mildly insulting to think that your 2 pregnant friends wouldn't be able to recognise this as anecdotal experience of infant feeding as oppose to expert led advice.

What an odd attitide. You remind me of my MIL. On the rare occasion she looks after the DC if I say something like "DS needs reminding to use the toilet and DD is rrally fussy with food right now but I'm not fussed - whatever she eats is great. Cheese is always a hit".
MIL gets the hump and says "I'm sure We'll manage I have looked after children before you know"

Which I find bizarre - I'm not critiquing her childcare skills - I'm giving her soecific information on my DC to make het life easier.

I would find it much more insulting if a qualified medic friend sat back and let another friend give me bad advice that could seriously affect the health of my child and me without saying anything.

Are people's egos so fragile they value them more than their health?

[pallisers]

Exactly Lucie. That is it exactly.

Diddl, I was extremely ill after my first was born and didn't see him for several hours during which I had a transfusion etc. The nursery had my dh give him a bottle - I think no one knew at that point when if ever I would be feeding him. The paediatrician who saw him the following day was annoyed by that and yes it was very difficult to get him to latch but with the help of the nurses I finally did it. I don't know whether they had ever breastfed themselves (someone commented about this upthread) and honestly, I doubt if a woman who had easily breastfed would have been any use to me but these women had seen every type of hard to latch baby and tried everything including holding my breasts, shoving them into his mouth at the right time etc. Finally one fab woman got him to latch by rigging up a little syringe/tube of formula that dribbled into his mouth when I put him on the boob - as soon as he felt it, he latched on and we were fine. I still think fondly of those nurses 20 years on.

[Izzy24]

Lucie8881

This exactly.

[Lucie8881]

At the end of the day it was supposed to be a group of friends having a chat over cake and coffee. A friend was relaying her experience, not given a lecture or demonstration. It's mildly insulting to think that your 2 pregnant friends wouldn't be able to recognise this as anecdotal experience of infant feeding as oppose to expert led advice.

For me, identifying yourself generically as a doctor lends no more weight to your argument (unless your speciality is obstetrics or such) as it doesn't automatically make you the authority on feeding. You were there in the capacity as a friend.

I can understand your need to be factual, but in this instance perhaps a little more tact could have been demonstrated.

[KarateKitten]

I think when bf has not worked out, some mums are pretty happy with the outcome and some are devestated. We all need to be sensitive to the devestated ones. But I will say that the amount of incorrect information that people who didn't manage to bf (this doesn't include people who chose to ff from the beginning) is terrible and some people constantly go around telling first time mothers who are yet to try this scientifically incorrect information. It's misleading and damaging to other people's attempts. And I hear it all the time. It's fine when they say it to me, I make the right noises and comfort them about the outcome, but if they are saying it as advice to a pregnant mum to be, it's hard not to step in. However, I wouldn't tear their story down but would have a quiet word with the mum to be after to put them straight on any completely incorrect facts.

[diddl]

Sorry mogon-I posted before I read all of your post properly.

I'm glad that it worked for you.

Disney-yes, you've put it well.

Imagine if Op's had wanted to bfeed but then by the time her milk came in couldn't due to the initial bottle feeding?

How awful would she feel?

[mogonfoxnight]

diddl you can get your baby to latch after bottle but it is hard work (i explained how we did it in my last post above).

I think the advice given by the staff on the post birth ward was not good, and much better advice was given by the staff on the maternity ward (as opposed to the post birth ward) and I think the difference was that the staff on the post birth ward were mainly temp and very demotivated. The staff on the maternity ward were amazing and i used to phone them from home for advice. I think they have stopped allowing that now though.

[Disneybump]

Granted everyone deserves to know "the truth" but there are ways of delivering information without offending anyone.

You can start with "did the midwife not inform you that it is normal for your milk to take a few days to really come in?" That way you are immediately taking the blame from her and reassuring her she is normal. Even though this is what the OP meant I think the way it came across was "you failed because you didn't try hard enough".

Words are very powerful and this is clearly a very sensitive issue... being attentive to others' feelings is essential I think.

[Rocketbuddies]

When my DS was first born and screamed the night through and my milk wasn't seeming to satisy him - the midwife gave me a little cup of formula, enough just to fill him a bit but I think introducing a bottle so early is often the problem as once theyve had a taste for how much easier the milk comes through a bottle they can prefer it to breast.