Friend is pissed off with me, WIBU to correct her?

[teenytinypontypine]

It is a breastfeeding one, sorry.

Group of 4 of us female friends out for lunch. I have an almost three y o who I breastfed for 13 months and FWIW it was fucking agony wasn't easy for the first couple of months but I stuck it out and am pleased I did. Other friend "A" has a 5 month old who is FF. I don't care a jot. Feed your baby however you like.

Other two ladies are both currently pregnant, due within a few weeks of each other around Xmas time, and over lunch conversation turns to feeding.

Friend A says she really wanted to bf but couldn't. She said her milk didn't come in because she had an elcs, so baby was starving and unhappy and she had to give up. "How long did you try for?" asks pregnant friend - answer: 18 hours. Cue sympathetic tutting from pregnant friends about how hard that must have been.

So, I sort of couldn't help myself but explain that your milk usually doesn't come in at birth, but more usually a few days later. And that newborn stomachs are v little and hardly take any filling at all. And that newborns physiologically are prepared for mum's milk not coming in for a few days so usually do just fine. Oh and that people having a section usually can bf. And yes, I know there are some circumstances where these things aren't true, but in the main this is what happens.

"A" got visibly riled - reporting that her baby was much happier as soon as she got a bottle. I gave her a big grin and said that's fine and clearly she is a happy, growing little girl and doing perfectly well on formula. But I told her I thought it was only fair to point out to pregnant friends some basic facts about bf. Especially as I am a fucking doctor.

Basically, she feels that by correcting or questioning her version of events I am judging her for not trying for longer. On the contrary, I couldn't give a flying fuck what she does wrt feeding, but I do care that she is spreading misinformation to pregnant friends. I have a duty as a bloody doctor to not just sit by and let someone's opinion stand as fact when I know evidence to the contrary.

So WIBU to correct her like that? Should I have just nodded and smiled and caught my two pregnant friends later to give them a more balanced view?

Yes I am a GP tess

Short exchange of messages between me and A - basically both apologising to each other (see, peace and love can exist between ff and bf ). She said sorry she exploded a bit earlier on, I said I was sorry for upsetting her and that I didn't mean to sound horrible to her, just wanted to make sure the others knew milk doesn't appear instantly on delivering baby. She replied she was fine with that, and that she remembered me crying with my shredded nipples when I had my LO so knew i wasn't saying it was easy.

And we are going for coffee on Friday.

All is good in the world.

I think the NHS should compile a website of real women's feeding experiences for pregnant women to read. Or we could give them all links to MN. Seriously, though - this place taught me a lot about what to do and what not to worry about. I had a rocky start to it (ELCS, jaundiced small baby, lost 12% of birth weight but MW miscalculated so we didn't get readmitted, hand expressing, syringe feeding, and emotional issues re stillborn DD1 which meant I was bound and determined not to give up) but we got there in the end.

My mum's story of bf twins helped immeasurably, but it was reading a vast number of bf threads on here that gave me the confidence to keep trying at 4am. OP giving a different perspective is all part of that rich pool of experience women need to draw on!

Yanbu.

Excellent outcome.

I think you did the right thing.

I have a ten week old and you get so much conflicting information that you could have said this as context.

You're right though, no one really cares how anyone else feeds their baby. I don't understand why she'd feel guilty by what you said, there's obs some underlying guilt and a lot of rationalisation

I had a premmie, and I tried to bf. No milk from me, no suckle reflex from her. I was told the exact same words as you said to your friend. It was horrid. I felt guilty enough without a friend telling me basically I didn’t try hard enough, for long enough.

You may not have been unreasonable, but you weren’t very tactful or sensitive to your friend.

I didn't have any pain and really enjoyed bf, i was CERTAIN it made my baby calmer and gave me more sleep. It wasn't all about the benefits for her but more for me. I advocate bf because it made my life a lot easier, every time my DD cried I put her on the breast and she was happy. She rarely cried and still does rarely cry. I also have never had a sleepless night because we coslept and she would just find my breast and fall asleep.
Saying this, my friend had a baby a few months after me and had the complete opposite experience. Her baby arched her back and cried the second she went near the breast. As soon as she started to bottle feed she suddenly had a very similar (and happier) experience to me.
I was literally so so certain that every baby was like mine and you just needed to bf and all your problems would go away but that clearly isn't true some babies just do better on formula and some do better being bf.

For those who say she was there as a friend and not as an HCP, it's nigh on impossible to leave your doctor hat at home. If your friends know you are a doctor and you listen to a conversation that you know to be wrong but say nothing, people assume you have validated it.
I learnt nothing about breastfeeding at Med school or during GP training but when I was pregnant I read loads about it- suspect pointing them towards some resources may have been a better approach and less likely to offend.

Glad it's all sorted Op :)

I don't care if you're a "fucking doctor" or a "bloody doctor" (your words) or whatever kind of doctor.
You might say you're a doctor but if you're anything to go by qualifying as one doesn't automatically put you through charm school or to actually be able to deal with humans. Not case studies.
Comments like the one you made makes new mums feel absolute shit and rubbish.
My first baby, I couldn't bf. Second, I knew I couldn't so didn't attempt apart from the first feed. Nurse/dr/whatever she was called after asking me if I was bfing when I got home and my response was no, I'll be ff, cow actually said whilst walking off "well, if you don't want what's best for your baby....."
Luckily it was 2nd baby for me and I was more "screw you, I l know what I'm doing" but if she'd have said that after my first I would have been in absolute pieces for ages.

YANBU, OP. There is so much misinformation out there. Of course it's going to take time for the milk to come in and for mum and baby to get used to things. We live in a world where people can no longer defer gratification, where instant results and success are expected. Anything less is seen as failure. I BF two DC for 18 months and of course it was hard at the start, but I persevered and it created an incredible bond with both of them. Too many people give up far too easily due to the myths that it's easy and natural.

I think you are missing the point, the research into elcs is rubbish, just look at any number of research papers and pull apart the statistical analysis. If you have an elcs then you are generally not in labour and so the placenta may not give the baby everything it needs before it comes out therefore the baby is born with a calorie deficit. I know my last baby was he was starving hungry and so was my niece who were both born by elcs and the clostrum just wasn't enough even after having it they just screamed and screamed and screamed until they were given a bottle of formula. Whereas my previous baby born by emcs when I was in labour was satisfied by my clostrum. If your friend wasn't in labour then her baby may have been born with a calorie deficit and so her clostrum may not have satisfied the baby.

For anyone planning on having an elcs then my top tip is ask if a student midwife would like to shadow you through the procedure as they have to see a certain number as part of their course. Mine was worth her weight in gold, I knew exactly why there was a delay and I didn't have to ring the bell for anything as it was magically done for me!

colostrum even

It's tricky because lots of people are made to feel so bad about not BFing that they feel the need to say 'their milk didn't come in' or they had 'low supply'. Instead of just saying 'I wanted to ff so I did' or 'it was just so fvcking hard that I didn't want to do it any longer'.

I think you were right to tell the pregnant friends the 'truth' but perhaps you could have have done it later...

As someone who could not breast feed DD2, I totally accept what you were saying. DD2 was whisked away from me at just over 8 hours old, potentially dying, then taken to a hospital 60 miles away, as they 'might' be able to save her. I tried and tried to pump, but got nothing. When I was well enough to travel to her, I still tried and nothing!! They said that the shock of her being so ill made my milk disappear. I tried for days though.

I still would not have been upset at what you said.

Well done OP, glad you made up with your mate you sound like a good friend.

Good outcome,

Proof that RL is a lot less incendiary than MN!

Going against the grain, YWNBU. She’s perpetuating myths to pregnant women, you just stated facts. It sounds like she’s judging herself rather than you judging her!

"Nurse/dr/whatever she was called after asking me if I was bfing when I got home and my response was no, I'll be ff, cow actually said whilst walking off "well, if you don't want what's best for your baby....."

Which is, of course exactly the same as what the OP said.

Oh, and nurses are usually the ones in uniform.

I aim to please @Neverknowing. I'm glad the OP and her friend have reached an understanding and that you understood my point. What the OP said wasn't wrong, how and when she said it was. During all my experience with patients nothing put them on the defensive faster than a direct challenge to their beliefs. They then hear nothing more of what you had to tell them because they have focused on that particular exchange. As a HCP I am more reticent about giving ANY advice to friends and family as I am acutely aware I am neither neutral nor in possession of all the information and as such may not offer the best advice. Hide your doctors / nurses hats well and direct people to their actual HCPs everytime

I breastfed my first 3 babies. One until 16 months, I also donated litres to the neonatal unit milk bank.

When No 4 came I made no milk. None whatsoever, not even enough colostrum. They put it down to the shock of finding my husband fucking my mother when I was pregnant. Maybe it was, who knows.

However, 8 hours after delivery I had a screaming, starving child who needed something in her belly. So out came the bottles and formula. I knew our breastfeeding counsellor quite well as she also coordinated the milk bank and I had her there, pulling and tugging away to try to get things moving.

I only tried for 8 hours, but I do know there wasn't the milk.

Never underestimate how long a few hours can be, and how much healthier it can be just to accept it's not happening and give a bottle.

Rachie

@BertrandRussell in my trust it has been known for doctors / nurses / students / physios / midwifes / bog cleaners / next doors uncles dog sitter to be seen wandering around in exactly the same pale blue scrubs. If the HCP did not take the time to introduce herself it may not have been clear who she was.

Rachie
That's awful

Thanks for your very honest post and I am so sorry that happened . I hope you are ok now ?

Such an honest thread on this topic I have learnt so much

And thanks god we do have reliable safe formula hey
And CS

Oh the bitter irony that the issues women tear themselves up over are the developments that prevent maternal and infant mortality !