What would you do? Woman makes drinks

[Memyselfandiiiiii]

I don't think I'm being unreasonable but this fills me with rage everyone and I don't know what to do about it.

In work meetings I'm often the only woman, but am equally well qualified as the male participants, albeit younger. So why is it that every single time the CEO says ' X will make the drinks, just tell her what you'd like '. Maybe I'm too easy to wind up but I feel absolutely raging every time. What would you do/say?

In internal meetings (appreciate formal client meetings are different) why do people not just bring their drink with them or make one before they sit down?

If you are management, then delegate. Next time you know there is going to be a meeting get one of your "minions" ready and waiting to take the drinks order.

I regularly sit in on meetings with lots of admin/management people and consultants/professors. I was always always asked to make the tea.

Will never forget the professor standing up when I was asked to make the tea and making a point of the fact I was always asked and there were 15 other people in the room who had two hands. He then said "so ill play mum shall I". 15 people sat round the table cringing as a top professor of medicine poured their tea

Pallisers I'd bet it is more prevalent in some cultures than others, but not just British. Have you ever been to Japan? The youngest female teachers in the staff room (or worker in the office) makes everyone tea no matter whether there is a younger or more junior man, and making your own tea without offering colleagues one is eyebrow raising and probably unacceptable if you are actually Japanese.

When I taught there another female foreign English teacher I knew was regularly called into the head master's office to serve sake to visiting officials from the ministry of education or visiting heads - she was even called out of lessons to do this and a male teacher sent to cover for her!

I would ask ( privately) . "I hope you don't mind me asking but Would you mind telling me why I am always asked to do the drinks?" Watch them squirm out of that one.

Good idea Orchid. I bet it has not even registered that it is unusual for the female to be making the tea!

Well, we don't offer refreshments to clients, so they don't see my terrible behaviour

Fortunately, I'm long past my probationary period and work in senior management, but it took me years before I learned to stop this kind of nonsense in its tracks. I will unapologetically call it out.

Last boss had only female staff doing kitchen stuff until I asked him why. He said he hadn't even noticed it but mended his ways immediately. Current boss thought it was okay to only open recruitment for a particular position to male candidates. As the job wasn't "sperm-donor", he needed to be reminded that this was illegal. I even read a union notice today that mentioned the election of a chairMAN at the next meeting. It's 2017, FFS. That is why I'll call it when I see it. The message clearly isn't getting through.

I also call it out as it happens because I want younger female staff to see that it's okay to stand up against this nonsense.

DailyMail I am female too, but I have to say people like you put me off. I think it's your confrontational and aggressive attitude the problem. There are better ways to put a message across, being a female in charge is one of them.

You don't have to take any crap from anyone without an attitude. We did get rid of a "feminist" not that long ago, not because of her views per say, but because of the constant lectures about equality.

coddi I'd much rather work with DailyMail than you. She sounds direct and like she takes no shit.
Whereas you have a problem with feminists...

Maybe you could talk to one of your male colleagues and ask them to say 'I'll do the drinks as X always does them' - might be less possibility of a negative reaction to you

This reminds me of the film Legally Blonde when the lawyer keeps asking Vivian to get him drinks and snacks. Unfortunately I think it is a common thing.

I got asked to do this a couple of times.
My job was upper management in manufacturing (only female).
I got about 20minutes down time in the kitchen at the other end of the building.
I was soon stopped from doing it as I was needed to kick off the meeting about production schedules!!
So I suggested why didn't we all bring our own drinks to the meeting seeing as it would keep meetings on track and no one had to complain about my tea tasting like dish water!!
They all agreed it would be the best idea.
So my advice would...

1. Take your time
2. Make tea/coffee like dish water!
3. When they complain suggest bring your own drinks to meeting

maxthemartian you are free to work wherever you want , if you prefer constant arguments and tension, go for it.

You are wrong however by thinking "taking no shit" and being "direct" means being unpleasant and rude. I wouldn't be in my current position (relatively senior in sales in a male environment) if I was either. I am still pleasant mostly and generally respected.

Agreed. Tbh it is a fallacy that in order to be taken seriously as a woman you have to emulate the less attractive traits of a stereotypical male. Ie: arrogance, "taking no shit" etc. In fact, many would say that is very anti-feminist wouldn't they?

I would be appalled at meeting room squabbles about who makes the drinks in a client meeting - raise outside of the meeting

I actually don't see this as a squabble. It's an issue of gender inequality being reinforced.

I agree there may be an appropriate time to raise it, but calling it a "squabble" makes it seem less important than it is, in my opinion.

Order in Costa on the CEO's slush fund

As for equality ..... clearly lacking in your work ...

I always have to make drinks but... That's cause I'm a receptionist. But can still sympathise.

Pallisers

I have never been in a work meeting in the US where there was any suggestion of it being like a tea party where one person was the host/waitress.

Yeah that's because they just don't understand hot tea in the United States (But that is a whole other thread!)

You are wrong however by thinking "taking no shit" and being "direct" means being unpleasant and rude.

I totally agree with coddiwomple. There is absolutely no reason why you can't draw the matter to the attention of the relevant person and explain the problem in a polite and professional way. The same is true about setting an example to younger women professionals - it is easy to explain this without being rude or snarky.

Also there are I am afraid plenty of decent men (both older and younger) who actually don't understand or having grasped the implications of unconscious bias or the way a particular practice comes across (always ask the most junior, but in this office the most junior is always a woman so it looks like it is a menial task allocated with gender bias). When it is explained to them in a reasonable and polite way, you are far more likely to get the result you want but also get them to change the way they operate.

An example is where the work place introduced an improved parental leave policy. The CEO says in a meeting about it "this will be great for women in the company" - it sends an unconscious message that parental leave is a woman's concern. Lots of men just don't get this. Banging on about a broken vagina just makes a woman look rude, aggressive and chippy - but most importantly isn't addressing the root cause in a positive way.

Daily I think you sound fantastic. Without women like you in the workforce, nothing would ever change. I think it's rather telling that a couple of posters are calling you aggressive just for speaking up.

My suggestion, OP, since you're a manager, manage. Tell someone who reports to you to make the drinks for the board meeting.

I would probably call someone more junior to come with you as you walk past them to the meeting room to be honest - just say "X, can you come and take drinks orders please". If you're invited to the meeting you're presumably required to have an input which you can't do if you're standing in the kitchen.

But I would also address it directly with the CEO, as the (unconscious or not) implicit gender bias isn't ok.

I'm with you Daily. I don't think if last long in coddi's office if being a feminist and refusing to take sexist behaviour is a problem.

I've noticed in a lot of male dominated environments - and I'm not saying yours is like this, C, this thread just reminded me of one I worked in - you have to become a certain type of woman, an exceptional "not like the others" woman, to fit in and do well, and that can sometimes mean acting as a gatekeeper against other women who's faces don't fit.

And I can't be doing with that. There's a special place in hell, as Madeline Allbright said, for women who don't help other women.

It is a drag but nice people don't object to helping others from time to time!

Pope but when it's only the sole woman present who is expected to be "nice" and "help others", it becomes a problem.

Lots of studies that women are penalised for not being 'nice' and 'helpful' much more than men are.

Witsender Fri 22-Sep-17 15:47:35

"It is much more a male/female thing to be fair jcsp."

Sadly very true.

Its not just tea making - lots of little everyday things/comments/expectations too.