To be pissed off with the flight time DH chose?

[Writerwannabe83]

A few months ago I went on holiday with DH and DS who had just turned 3 years old.

My husband is the sort of person who will look to save money in any way he can and as a result he booked really stupid flight times (in relation to having a 3 year old) because they were cheaper.

Our flight out was at 9pm and due to flight length and transfers we didn't get to our hotel at what would have been almost 3am in U.K. time. Our DS hadn't been able to sleep at all on the flight or transfer which meant by the time he got to bed at the hotel he'd been awake for over 21 hours. He was obviously absolutely exhausted (as was I) and it was a complete nightmare and the first day of the holiday was a complete write off as DS practically slept all day.

Anyway - me and DH agreed that as it had been so difficult and unfair to DS we would always book practical flight times in future whilst DS was young, even if it does cost a bit more.

However, yesterday DH told me he'd booked us a holiday as a surprise and that he'd gotten it really cheap. I knew what that meant and so I asked about flight times and the flight out means we'd have to get DS out of bed at 2.30am and then drag him around an airport for hours and then deal with him on flights and transfers where he probably won't be able to sleep again. This will mean that by the time we get to the hotel DS will only have had 7 hours sleep in the space of about 27 hours, involving a 2.30am wake-up.

DH thought his idea was great because it meant we'd get the whole first day of the holiday, which I pointed out would just be spent with us all, especially DS, catching up on sleep.

Of course it was lovely DH had booked this holiday but he knows I'm annoyed with the flight times especially since he'd previously agreed we always fly hours that weren't disruptive.

When I asked him why he'd got such silly flight times again and why couldn't he have just got a later one for DS's sake, he said it's because the flights he'd booked had saved him about £75. I personally don't think the hassle of a stupidly early flight is worth saving £75 for especially when it's going to have such a horrible effect on DS. Even taking DS out the picture it means I'll only get about 4 hours sleep in the space of 27 and that's just not enough for me.

DH reckons that as he's the one driving to the airport the stupidly early rise and how little sleep we're all going to get shouldn't be an issue as the early flight only really affects him....

AIBU to be annoyed?

I'm trying not to show my annoyance and since our initial conversation about the holiday I haven't mentioned the flights because I don't want DH to think I'm not grateful, but inside I feel pissed off.

reading back the comments think of it the other way round if you'd booked a holiday and instead of getting an excited response you just got moaned at by dh everyone would be calling him a miserable fuck and to leave him home!

You're probably right, but I do think I'd be that one poster going against the grain, telling the OP YABU for booking such an unreasonable flight time and I'd be whingeing too. It's nearly guaranteed to piss of the baby (thus making the flight difficult for everyone else as well) and leave everyone exhausted by the time they get to the hotel, therefore making the entire first day of the holiday a write off... in exchange for a mere £75. That's a lot of money to most people, but it's probably less than the cost an entire day of holiday, and I'd see that money as wasted considering the first day would be spent in a hotel room, either whispering and tip-toeing around a sleeping baby or trying to soothe a tired, grumpy, crying, yet excited baby.

But then sleep and I are bitter enemies, so this kind of thing may be a problem for me, personally, when it isn't for others.

I actually don’t see how it is a 2.30 start
If I remember all the past posts

Flights are 7am
Lives 45 mins from airport
Surely the start is about 4am?

Although not saying this is better is usual for lots of holidays ..?

Sorry if the facts are incorrect

I suppose we are all seeing this thru our own perspective and those who have good sleepers/have only minimal disruption from this type of thing are all very about it. Then you have others (like me) who have had really shit experiences - which aren't 'just one night' and have a knock on effect for the whole holiday. That doesn't make me a glass half empty person at all. It makes me someone who has had 5 years straight of real disasters where everyone is miserable for weeks.

Our last holiday lives on in our memory as 'D&V roaster cabin' and if those words are mentioned we all shudder. Or the holiday which was ruined because there was a step in the apartment which is referred to simply as 'The Step'.

As a child i did these flights with Mum and Dad but i was a very different child and like lots of you my parents couldn't understand our reluctance. Then they came on holiday with us and are still recovering! They couldn't comprehend why the children wouldn't 'just sleep' or why days later they were still tired and out of routine (and refusing to eat, screaming, refusing to go in the pool or on the beach etc ).

We have flown with ours since the first was 10 months old and it still is a fucking trauma at the best of times - let alone tired at 2.30am. So please don't make out i'm some miserable whinger. Because i am not. It's just reality for lots of us.

Flights are 6.35 iirc

OP I would be semi-inclined to let him take the two DC on this fantastic holiday and have a staycation myself.

flight out means we'd have to get DS out of bed at 2.30am and then drag him around an airport for hours and then deal with him on flights and transfers where he probably won't be able to sleep again. This will mean that by the time we get to the hotel DS will only have had 7 hours sleep in the space of about 27 hours, involving a 2.30am wake-up

This sounds like it's too far for Euro Disney?

And op said when they got there they'd have nowt to do other than wander round so I doubt it's Disney.

Op I would be furious. We went to the states this year and our 3 year old Ds stayed awake till 1:30 a.m and was a horror. I swore I would never do a night flight unless it was long haul.
Not all kids go to sleep wherever they are, we have one that if we woke him at 2:30 not only would he cry ( alot) I very much doubt he would go back to sleep. I think your husband is us lucky you didn't completely loose your rag lol. It's not a holiday unless everyone is happy, I have even flown two separate airlines to ensure good flight times.

@boomboomscousin IIRC the OP's husband wanted to take her DS on holiday by himself last year but OP didn't want that either. Not sure what the outcome was but I remain pretty sure that he can't win whatever he does.

Thoughtless and inconsiderate but doable. Take a large buggy so DS can rest or doze at the airport and on the first day of your holiday. Having a buggy with you also makes it easier to go out in the evenings.

You are genuinely surprised that people have a different opinion to you hmm

I am surprised people think it's okay to wake tiny children at 2.30 for a day's travelling when it can be avoided.

I understand that people have different opinions thanks. I am merely expressing how I feel about them.

Any resolution OP? Did you talk to your DH?

If the flights are booked and you can't change them try to figure out a way to minimise the sleep disruption. Maybe put your DS to bed earlier the night before if he will go to sleep earlier and work out how you can let him sleep as late as possible on the day. Work out with DH if you REALLY need to be up at 2.30 or can you leave a bit later.

Re the hotel - you might be lucky and be able to check in on arrival if your room is ready. In which case you might be able to get DS to nap when you get there.

On th flight try to get him to sleep - you never know your luck! Bring a blanket and a small pillow and get him comfy. Don't let him eat anything sugary at the airport. Maybe a milky drink and toast or a bagel or something similar. Let him snuggle in to you or DH (if he likes to snuggle) and read him a story. Ask him to try to sleep as he will feel much better later.

If you are going to EuroDisney I would bring a pushchair for him.

Where are you going OP? What's the time difference as surely that could have an effect on your DC sleeping pattern too.

It's bugging me now!

Up at 230am, 45 mins from airport so at airport by 3am. In terminal by, say 330, flight at 630. OP has said on previous posts here that they arrive after lunch UK time but 10am local time and they will have been awake for 20 hours as they will only have had 7 hours sleep in 27 hours.

I can't figure out the time difference, can anyone else?!

My DH would do this, if I let him. It is a complete false economy, because you are so tired and it wipes out the first day of the holiday. Can you cancel and rebook?

Chill out. Its an adventure for kids. You can keep you pushchair till you check your luggage in so they may well go back to sleep.

Its an adventure for kids.

Not for mine, nor me.

My kids don't sleep in taxis or airplanes or the floor in an airport.
A 3am start would have them knocked off kilter for several days, sleep patterns all over the place and making them very grouchy.
Not a good start to a holiday.

OP what are the flight times like on the return journey?

Brittbugs - op said it would be 10am local time, 9am UK time. So Europe.

I can't remember flight times when my two were similar ages. Don't think we let it put us off. However, your ds sounds like he needs this sort of thing taken into account. Also, you and dh had discussed it and agreed to discount crap flight times.

My thing is - I can't imagine booking a holiday without consulting my dh. I wouldn't be so arrogant. Especially one I know he would object to. Double fucking arrogant.

Another thing - are you meant to look forward to knowing where you are going? Plan day trips etc. Doesn't he know you are a person too?

aren't

To answer some questions, sorry I can't reply to everyone personally..

Someone said I find the idea of holidays stressful in general so am just using the flight time as an excuse to get out of going: That's not true at all, we've had plenty of holidays together and have more booked next year (not including the surprise one). I love going on holiday.

It was also said by someone that my DH had wanted to take DS away alone last year but I wasn't happy with it. Well they did go and earlier this year they went away together for two weeks. The reason I was reluctant about their first trip together was because I would miss DS, which I did, but I never stopped them from going either time.

People have questioned why we have a 2.30am wake up time which I've explained a few times so can be found in my previous posts.

My DH has said the time difference is two hours so I assume we're going somewhere mainland Europe. It won't be EuroDisney as he hates it there and said he'd never waste money taking the kids there

Someone said they were surprised I hadn't gone nuclear at DH when he told me the flight times: the reason I didn't is because he told me in a public place and when the children were with us. If he's told me at home when we were alone he knew I'd probably have gone a bit irate, I think this is why he didn't tell me when we were alone. He knew I wouldn't make a scene in front of other people and the children.

I'm going to speak to him about it tonight and find out where we are going, what the flight length is and what time difference is and what exact time the transfer is and when we get to the hotel etc. His vague timings aren't helping the situation and it's confusing me as much as it's confusing you all!

But lots of children don't doze or rest when they are tired. They go the other way, running about, shrieking etc. Overtired. Hyper. So buggies make no difference. We also had to keep taking our 1 sleeping baby out of the buggy to go thru check in and to queue for ages to get on the plane, then walk miles about the airports, up and down stairs carrying them and hand luggage.

You know the airport, the date and the flight time how come you haven't just looked up where you're going?

I wouldn't be happy with a 2.30 start, not everyone can sleep on planes and if you're children are awake so are you

YANBU Writer, it's very inconsiderate of your DH to disregard your wishes, especially when you've had a nightmare with it before and specifically agreed you wouldn't do flights that meant a middle of the night start.
If he's paying for the holiday, yes it's a lovely thought, but to pick flights he knows to you'll hate, but can't challenge because he's doing 'a nice thing' is a little controlling and calculating. If he's paid for it from family funds, and done it as a surprise to get his way, then that is very much not on, and you need to have a strong word about him not making family decisions solo.

I expect changing the flights now will be tricky (particularly if he digs his heels in!) but I think at this point you need to insist on a door to door taxi to enable the latest possible wake up time for you and DS. It won't be cheap, but it will be less than £75, and may help him to see the false economy of the early flight!

I really really hate people who manipulate situations to get their own way by making it so that if you actually hold them to previous agreements, YOU'RE the unreasonable one.

Just look at these thread responses fgs.

You had a shit time previously doing early flights. So, like a reasonable adult, you DISCUSSED it with your DH and came town agreement.

And then your DH deliberately arranges something he knows you won't like, which he's previously seen impact negatively on you and your child, because he prefers it. He engineers every part of the situation to disregard your feelings and back you into a corner, like telling you in public. But because AWWW IT'S A HOLIDAY and he's gone to all that trouble to surprise you, YOU are the cow for not liking being utterly disregarded and having your opinions and feelings trampled on.

OP, my advice would be to refuse to go.

He's broken your agreement and treated you like a child. He clearly doesn't understand this 'agreeing on a course of action like adult partners' thing, so unfortunately the only route left is clicker training. No follow the agreement - no treat.

If you want this to be the last time this happens- refuse to go. And he won't pull this stunt again. Go, and he'll rub his hands, think, cool, managing this little woman is easy beans- and next year you'll be presented with his idea of where he wants to go complete with 2am start yet again.

The thing that really shows how dismissive of you he is, is that this is about a holiday. Of all the things in the world, could you get something more personal and subjective. If he was insuring on x car instead of y because it better suits your needs etc then at least you could say, well he has a point. But you've said repeatedly - something that really spoils the start of a holiday FOR ME is a horrid early start so the first couple of days are a knackering ordeal. And he's basically either saying 'no, don't buy that. You're not allowed to have that opinion. Feel the way I feel please' OR he's saying 'but I don't care - I prefer this, and that's more important- knowing you're tired and miserable doesn't matter- it won't bother me'.

Hateful, manipulative behaviour dressed up as just a cheeky wee thing to do but HEY it'll be fine.

So my advice is don't go.

And then your DH deliberately arranges something he knows you won't like

Maybe he's missed off with always organising the holidays with no input from OP apart from dictating flight times.