Saw a dad hit their child on the school run. Do I report it?

[Moanyoldcow]

Please tell me if I'm over reacting. I'm extremely anti-corporal punishment, was not hit as a child and do not hit my son.

On the school run this morning there was a father and son who I see most mornings. They were a little late today and the boy was really agitated about it asking his dad to hurry. His dad was annoyed and kept saying they were very close (which is true) and to stop worrying.

The boy was obviously upset and pushed his dad. His dad responded by hitting him twice on the back of his head. It happened about 8ft in front of me.

I said (loudly but didn't shout) 'don't hit your child' twice. He turned to me and put his finger up to me like he was about to shout and I said again 'don't hit your child'. He was very angry but just said 'FINE' and we all finished the walk to school arriving about 1 min after the bell.

I know that parents can hit their children within limits so what he did wasn't illegal. I suppose I worry that if he'll do that in public, what does he do in private?

I would recognise him and the child so I could make a report - I just don't want to blow one incident out of proportion but if it's more I'd hate to ignore it.

What should I do?

In Scotland hitting your child in the head is illegal. Different measures apply in the rest of the uk so it depends on where you are but if you have concerns mention it to the school.

not one of them (aside from DS with SN) would dream of hitting or pushing me or OH.

Ah, well, clearly mine don't distinguish, because the 3 year old has certainly had a go when we've had to put something away at bedtime (again, the oldest not really, because he's just not that way) - but we'd tell him off, at worst hold his arms so he stops hitting (if he's really lost the plot).

I think that what people forget when they talk about it doing no harm is that if you hit your kids as discipline, eventually those kids are going to get big enough that they'll be able to hit you back hard enough to do damage (to you or their siblings/friends) - and it's better to have control without violence. My 7 year old is just on the cusp of me being pretty sure I could restrain him if needed (I emphasise, I can't imagine it ever would be). In 3 years it would be an even fight.

I know boys that got in punch ups with their fathers when they got to 17 or so, I remember how those ended - and it wasn't with the mutual respect I hope to get to with my kids.

A cuff around the ear is acceptable is it, DarceyBussellsnose?

In law it is - provided the child wasnt marked.

I've already asked if thee child stumbled, fell, cried - this was ignored. Presumably, as the Op isnt drip feeding that the child dramtically sprawled across the pavement, bloodied and broken with a hulking raging father standing over him, belowing all manner of dire punishments, we can deduce this was a cuff. And this will take how long to be investigated by staff, who are short staffed, with precious little in the way of resources who have actual problems to investigate.

Pengggwyn

It IS legal for a parent or carer to smack their own child in the England, Wales and Northern Ireland when it amounts to ‘reasonable punishment’, as laid down in section 58 of the Children Act 2004.

But whether a smack can be judged reasonable punishment will depend on the age of the child and the force involved in smacking. Parents have the right to choose to discipline their children with a smack, but there is a fine line between what some parents would regard as ‘reasonable’ (and therefore a defence in law) and assault, which is a criminal offence.

Hitting a child in a way which causes wounding, actual bodily harm, grievous bodily harm or child cruelty are all illegal. A parent could be charged with common assault if a child is left with any of these injuries:

Scratches

Abrasions

Minor bruising

Swellings

Reddening of the skin

Superficial cuts

A black eye

For even more serious injuries - cuts, multiple bruising, fractures, broken bones, broken teeth or loss of consciousness - a parent could be charged with actual bodily harm.

Under Scottish law, parents can claim a defence of “justifiable assault” when punishing their child.

But section 51 of the Criminal Justice (Scotland) Act 2003 prohibits the use of an “implement” when punishing a child. It also bans parents from shaking their child or striking them on their head.

The soft body part, open hand etc has come from both NSPCC and Police. Not just something I made up to jazz up a presentation

I once posted about an exchange I had with a man outside my house beating up his girlfriend.
Reading it back I cringed. It really looked like I was posting to tell the world how wonderful I was.
It wasn't about that. I was unsure if I had done the right thing (I would behave differently if it happened again) and I needed to talk about it and get advice.
So I don't think you are stealth boasting.
Seeing someone hit a child is pretty shocking even if you are not vehemently anti smacking.

I think it is sad but amusing to see that some find this acceptable behaviour by an adult to a child.

I have to ask what their reaction would be if they saw a dog being hit round the head. What's the betting they would be full of indignation?

OP, report it to safeguarding team. Even if they appear to do nothing your report will be on file in case of any further incidents. I am much older than many of you and of a different generation, but even in 'my day' hitting a child round the head was unacceptable.

Of course you are far from being a perfect parent, there is no such thing.

I'm just struggling to understand why you need to ask the internet about your moral compass. You seem quite convinced that he was in the wrong and you're not scared of the repercussions, so what is your question?

Do you regret possibly making things worse by making a scene instead of dealing with it appropriately? Is that (keeping your mouth shut and thinking before you act) an impulse control that you have to work on?

I didnt say it was acceptable - I said it was legal. World of difference.

OP it doesn't matter if it's legal or not. It's not illegal to swear at your kids but if you saw someone saying 'get into school you little fucking shit' you might say something to the kid's teacher.

If it seemed to you to be worth being concerned about, it's probably worth being concerned about. A smack on the head is not the same as not being read to every night or eating too many burgers.

Mentioning what you saw to the school safeguarding team is not sending the kid into care, it's just raising a concern.

Thefirstmrsdv that is an interesting and different perspective thank you

There are some nasty abuse apologists on this thread.

Smacking is poor parenting and something I consider assault. I think the sooner we as a country say it is NEVER acceptable the better for all. None of these grey areas.

OP you really had no right to say that, the child is question does not belong to you,

A child is not a possession. Keeping everyone is society safe from physical abuse men's people need to speak up.

The op has not justa right but a duty to say something. Think of how a child being hit sees it:

Whacked in the side of the head - adults around say nothing = this is normal and I am bad

Whacked and the lady who sees it calls dad out = maybe this isn't ok...

Huge difference. Report to the school safeguarding person OP. And yes, I would have said something too.

If you saw a man hitting a woman in the street would you not be allowed to say anything because that woman belongs to him and he can chastise her?

My friend came across a man verbally abusing his partner. He was being horrendous to her. She did get involved, she did tell him he was being an arsehole and he needs to stop. He became more angry and who do you think would have got the brunt of that?

It's difficult, there are some situations where you clearly have to physically or verbally intervene to protect someone. You also have to think if your actions are going to make the situation worse for the person you are trying to protect. There isn't always an easy answer.

So in OP's situation I would have kept quiet and reported straight away.

Moanyoldcow Absolutely good for you. It must be reported and the school will know what to do. I work in an area of high deprivation and we deal with a lot of safeguarding concerns. As teachers, we note anything that makes us uncomfortable and sometimes it's nothing and doesn't go anywhere, and sometimes it's a piece of a jigsaw puzzle. It's not up to us to decide, but every piece of the puzzle can be very important, and sometimes you don't know how important it is until the whole picture starts to come together.

And I've managed to get punched/slapped/kicked/bitten by a number of children during my career without ever feeling inclined to hit them back. Because they are children, they are products of their environment and they are still learning, so what are we teaching them?

You're not allowed to hit a child on the head, no way! A smack on the hand is legal, and on the bottom as long as the child is dressed, I think. But never, never on the head! And what you're describing sounds like lashing out in frustration not discipline. So yes, you should report it.

If you think that children only hit because their parents hit them, well that is a lot of offensive and inflammatory shite.

Behaviour breeds behaviour.

Sometimes I have to watch what I say and what opinions I have around my DC because they often repeat what I say. It goes to school and comes out to their mates and teachers and is put down on paper. My DC repeat what I say about Brexit, politics and come out with language that I use (mostly blasphemes). They copy me. If a child sees their Dad, their ultimate male role model, hitting others they will think it is OK to do the same.

I'm not completely opposed to occasional smacking but this doesn't sound right to me. I would probably let the school and/or social services know. This won't necessarily prompt a disproportionate reaction but it might (if there are deeper/ongoing issues) contribute to observations made by teachers, healthcare workers, etc. The key thing these days is about sharing information so that children in danger don't fall through the cracks.

Here Pengggwn

www.psychologytoday.com/blog/moral-landscapes/201309/research-spanking-it-s-bad-all-kids

Not just 'opinion'.

Are we talking like NCIS or full pelt?

Kids do copy.

That's another reason not to hit them. They hit when they are little because they have no restraint and are overwhelmed by their emotions. If you, as the adult, respond to that with a firm no, and model the behaviour you want to see then eventually (after three billion repetitions) they will deal with their emotions without violence.
If you scream and shout and hit, they will see that as a way to resolve arguments.

Before anyone jumps on me, I don't mean the odd bit of shouty-parent behaviour. I do t mean yelling 'no' if they're about to run into he road, I mean hitting your kids and effing and blinding at them. You don't need to be a saint, god knows they push your buttons, but you don't hit kids, ever.