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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To feel uncomfortable about this

454 replies

user1471558723 · 20/09/2017 14:51

My mother is in her late eighties, she lives alone and looks after herself. I live some distance away but speak to her most days. I do her shopping and visit her once or twice a week.
She attends a craft club once a week, it's attended by people of all ages.
A much younger lady began dropping my mother at home each week, this then developed into her offering to collect my mother. This lady let's call her Anne is very kind she has according to my mother an unsupportive partner, a large family, primary school age children, grown up children and grand children. She looks after them all and does not have a job. Anne also looks after her elderly father who has terminal cancer.
I was delighted when Anne offered my mother regular lifts to and from the craft club. But now the friendship has intensified. Anne is visiting my mum several times a week. She is "helping" my mother with all the administrative work that I used to do, sorting out insurance etc.
I've told my mum there is no need to involve Anne in all this as she obviously is a woman with commitments of her own. My mum insists Anne wants to do everything she does.
My mum is very well placed financially and reading between the lines life has not been so kind to Anne.
I would really like to think that Anne is a lovely lady who has found a friendship with my mother despite the 45 year age gap. I'm just a bit uncertain and would value other people's opinions.

OP posts:
Peregrina · 22/09/2017 21:06

Pengggwn - yes there has been some OTT suggestions on this thread, but OP used to deal with her mother's admin work, and used to do her shopping, presumably with her DM's agreement. The friend started offering lifts, which sounds genuinely helpful, but is now taking over jobs which the OP once did. That's a long way from a son or daughter insisting on taking over a parent's affairs when they are still perfectly capable.

Pengggwn · 22/09/2017 21:09

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CoffeeBreakIn5 · 22/09/2017 21:16

OP step in. I say this from bitter, bitter experience. I'm currently paying a lot of money for a solicitor to unpick the damage done to my aunt who is now in a nursing home. They have taken everything and changed her will. I have had to buy her everything, 76 years old and she had the clothes she stood up in and nothing else.

This happens. Our family are close and this still happened. The police says there is nothing 'criminal' about what these parasites have done. We avoided prying into finances, asking questions about who she saw, we were far too worried about offending her. We effectively allowed this to happen because we were too polite to intervene.

I hope that Anne turns out to be a genuinely nice person, in your shoes I'd rather offend her by being suspicious.

Peregrina · 22/09/2017 21:16

I think though Pengggwyn a lot of us have seen dodgy behaviour happening with elderly relatives - so OP is absolutely right to be concerned about this. And if OP's mother has asked Anne to take these jobs on, isn't Anne's answer to say that the DM asked for her to do it? In fact OP says the opposite "My mum insists Anne wants to do everything she does". That's not "I asked her to do it".

Pengggwn · 22/09/2017 21:19

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Peregrina · 22/09/2017 21:21

CoffeeBreak - I fully agree. If Anne is above board she will have absolutely no problem with the OP getting to know her better, but she didn't seem to want to.

However, OP does seem to have a handle on it, and now that she is going to be able to see bank statements, (we did this with DM with her full agreement), it will be interesting to see how friendly Anne remains.

Peregrina · 22/09/2017 21:28

There is no justification for some of the advice here, like 'Get your POA as soon as you can' etc.

You are wrong there. This is something people can only do while they are competent. Once its obtained, nothing need happen, the paperwork can sit there in a drawer untouched, and might never be called upon. But, it can save an awful lot of hassle years down the line when someone has lost capacity.

friendlyflicka · 22/09/2017 21:31

I have just read through this and completely understand what you are saying, Pengggwn

I have lived close to, looked out for and after my mother, before and after she succumbed to dementia.

Some of the contributors to this thread, while with the best of intentions, sound incredibly disrespectful to the OP's mother. An elderly person does not automatically assume the status of a child.

Pengggwn · 23/09/2017 05:19

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Pengggwn · 23/09/2017 05:20

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KERALA1 · 23/09/2017 07:41

So the posters supporting anne would genuinely have no sense of unease whatsoever if in the ops position?

Pengggwn · 23/09/2017 07:44

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Oldie2017 · 23/09/2017 08:18

That's the hard thing to decide. My father a brilliant psychiatrist obviously always had a pretty good mind and was wise with money. Also dementia is not instant. It can 10 years in the coming. My mother said even before she died (she died first) his brain was going (long before any diagnosis).

I think just having as much contact as you can helps. A sibling and I went to see our father when his other carers (who might have been making it up) expressed concerns. Our father could point to the sum he wrote in his diary when his bank statement came in and said he had lots of money (true at that point) - so he was mentally agile enough to take a bank statement and write the sum down in the diary. He did not seem to understand that the fact the money friom a few months before was a lot higher might mean too much spending (and not by him). However we wanted him reassured and he wanted to be there in his own home until he died (he was and it cost with no fraud £130k a year for day and night care in that last year - his solicitor said it often is £100k so that was not too out of line). So we left things as he wanted them, accepted the will change (this person got 25% which is obviously not 100% so not too bad) and had a little battle over registering his power of attorney (which was in our - the children's favour set up years before - we never ever fell out with him right to the end) which took over a year or more and he or those controlling him (which we will never know). Then he died so the problem went away,.

Even things like checking his finances - he kept saying you can look at anything but the filing cabinet was locked and he did not know where the key was and "the person" had it at her place but would not answer calls to get it to us. Then people with dementia often say one thing to one person and the opposite to someone else. His lawyers would not let us check the bank statements but instead hired his accountants for £5000 (!!) to do what we would have done for nothing. They found after some months nothing huge had gone out like £100k, just the various supermarket trips etc so we left it and it was not so bad. It was nothing like the person above where every penny is stripped away.

We were very aware of that difficulty - when is someone allowed to be in charge and when not. I want to be in charge until the last and after the trouble over my father's power of attorney I don't want to execute one so I'd better have my mind until the last as my mother did.

Had we done it again I would have visited more and been more of a presence in the house (which my father would not have minded at all). I would have tried to see his doctors with him rather than having no information about his care. However it's hard if you all have small children and all live a long way away and all work full time - that was the positoni of all 3 of us children. I still don't really know if there were any financial elder abuse but I do know that had he been in his right mind our father would have left his money (not that there was that much left anyway) to his children equally rather than 25% to this other person who was hardly close to him. It was not as if they had been a full time employee or lover or anything like that. I suspect he offered and it was accepted which is interesting. He offered a large sum of money to one of us and we said of course we don't take it - you need it but an out sider would just say yes and as this person who was still operating their own affairs had offered it that is not necessarily illegal - just unwise.

Bettencourt that rich US lady died aged 94. She ended up perhaps financially favouring someone too much in her older age and it went to court. It is a huge issue around the world.

On the one hand I feel perhaps people should make their will before age 70 and not be allowed to change it but then they would still give money away to carers and yet some people are totally on the ball until much older. My children's last grandparent published his first technical engineering book at about 86,

user1479335914 · 23/09/2017 09:11

I'd like to thank you OP for raising this matter. I have learned a lot from the thread, about what seems to be a huge problem of people fleecing the elderly, and how they go about it, and also from posters who pointed out the unevenness of decline and sometimes its speed. I was not aware of all this, and as I have two very elderly relatives to look out for, am very grateful for all the insights.
Really hope your situation with your mother and Anne turns out well.

Peregrina · 23/09/2017 09:14

That isn't what I am saying. It is the language: 'get' and 'your'. Both imply this is a facility to benefit the younger relative, not the elderly relative. It also denies the agency of the elderly person: 'get', not 'discuss' or 'agree'.

Yes, but you seem to apologise for Anne. You say that the mother might be happy to have handed her affairs over to Anne. She might have done, but if that's the case does Anne need to get defensive about it? It's a tricky one - as can be seen from this thread, a lot of us have seen that situation arise. And yes, there are unscrupulous relatives too.

Pengggwn · 23/09/2017 09:46

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Tweez · 23/09/2017 10:17

Pengggwn
You are entirely missing the point of this thread and being deliberately awkward. You have not experienced what the OP has or what other posters and I have have either, so you cannot appreciate how worrying it is. Instead you seem to be constantly referring to how bad it is for a competent adult to need assistance from their children at times like this and to be concerned for their financial affairs. You have absolutely no idea and you are just being simply annoying.

Pengggwn · 23/09/2017 10:26

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friendlyflicka · 23/09/2017 10:34

Tweez, you have no idea about the life histories of other posters.

I don't think Pengggwyn is missing the point of this thread at all. She is pointing out that any of the surveillance and control methods which might be suitable to watch out for a small child, are not at all appropriate for an adult.

It is a tricky situation but the OP needs (as it sounds she is very effectively) to take part in a social interaction just like she would with any other adult. Unless the elderly person lacks mental capacity, the OP needs to engage with her and respect her decisions.

Tweez · 23/09/2017 11:11

friendlyflicka
No, I don't know the life histories of other posters and I never said I did.
I have been in the same position as the poster so can identify completely with her concerns. Carers took a lot of money from my own father who was of competent mind, but bed bound and I can never prove it. They became his 'friends'. He couldn't see it happening and trusted them. Even though a parent is competent in the mind, you do still have to look out for them. I am sorry you had the troubles you had with your own parent and perhaps you never had to contend with these particular issues, but I can empathise fully with the OP and I think she should do all she can in her power to watch out for her mum.

dobbyclub · 23/09/2017 11:13

People don't seem to be reading pengggwn 's posts properly. She's not apologising for Anne or saying how wonderful it is that old people get scammed. She's pointing out misinformation and attitudes that reflect a sense of entitlement over the elderly person's money; which surely is the point of the thread.

There have been people defending the behaviour of the 'Annes' of the world but they're the ones saying how it's possible - possible - that she's genuine because sometimes people are.

Peregrina · 23/09/2017 11:20

It's when you suspect your elderly relatives are losing capacity that it becomes tricky. Is it just normal forgetfulness or is it more?

Whinesalot · 23/09/2017 11:26

I'd be very wary too. Now you have POA does that mean you have access to her bank accounts etc so that you can scrutinise then carefully?

She might just be playing the long game and hoping for an inheritance though.

StaplesCorner · 23/09/2017 11:31

I think we'd find Penggwn's posts a lot more helpful if she'd been in this position herself. If her elderly relative had been stripped of every asset whilst she stood back and said no no no, we mustn't interfere.

Tweez · 23/09/2017 11:32

I'm sure there are a lot of genuine 'Anne's out there...but my gut feeling is that I don't think this Anne is one of them. From everything the Op says, it's ringing alarm bells for me. It's not about disrespect of a parent, it's about distrust of the 'friend'. It's hard. If you have never been in the same situation it is difficult to understand.