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Is he Right, Left, or is He Nothing at All? Trump thread continued.

986 replies

TheClaws · 17/09/2017 01:20

My bet is on nothing.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3024189-In-the-dim-corner-we-have-Trump-In-the-dictator-corner-we-have-Kim-Or-is-that-mixed-up

OP posts:
Thread gallery
49
lionheart · 19/09/2017 10:59

I'm also wondering whether Zuckerberg's apparent attempts to lay the groundwork for a Presidential bid will be able to overcome the Facebook factor once this all unfolds. Or, indeed, whether FB would be (sort of) trying to clean up its act if he didn't have the White House as a future residence in mind.

www.axios.com/facebooks-russia-probe-firepower-2486846533.html

Gumpendorf · 19/09/2017 11:53

It would be interesting to know where the leaks originate and who is leaking wouldn't it?

I saw speculation it had Russia/Putin origins and was intended as a reminder of the damage Putin could do if Trump didn't toe the line. It has all the hallmarks of a Putin action - targeting Trump where he knows it hurts most: his family.

Wasn't the leak immediately after the G20 meeting?

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 19/09/2017 12:23

(I feel like this has already been established but haven't given the article more than a cursory glance so might've missed something)

Carole Cadwalladr @carolecadwalla
So, this is pretty extraordinary. Hillary links Kenya, Trump & Brexit. Says all "projects" of Cambridge Analytica

qz.com/1081021/hillary-clinton-says-trump-linked-cambridge-analytica-had-role-in-kenyas-annulled-election/

lionheart · 19/09/2017 12:24

Yes, indeed. I wouldn't be at all surprised.

More on Flynn the question of who might give him a little bit of help with his cashflow problems and whether anyone will ever know the donors.

www.wsj.com/articles/mike-flynns-family-launches-legal-defense-fund-1505753584

lionheart · 19/09/2017 12:25

Behnd the paywall but here is something on what the WH refuses to believe about immigrants.

www.nytimes.com/2017/09/18/us/politics/refugees-revenue-cost-report-trump.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 19/09/2017 12:38

I'm confused about what's happening with gorka and bannon. I thought they were going to work to strengthen trump's hand outside the white House but this seems to suggest they're working against him

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 19/09/2017 12:42

I hope there is an investigation

There’s now an investigation going on in the UK, because of the use of data and the weaponization of information. They were involved in the Trump campaign after he got the nomination, and I think that part of what happened is Mercer said to Trump, “We’ll help you, but you have to take Bannon as your campaign chief. You’ve got to take Kellyanne Conway and these other people who are basically Mercer protégés.”

cozietoesie · 19/09/2017 12:55

I 'think', Pain, that they're trying to steer him back to The Path.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 19/09/2017 13:04

That makes sense. Ditch the "globalists" etc and embrace the white supremacists. I suppose the problem about the three groups banding together to elect trump (white supremacists, religious groups and wealthy conservatives) is that actually they have different aims and now

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 19/09/2017 13:06

(premature posting)...he has to try to please them all.

cozietoesie · 19/09/2017 13:09

I'm not so sure that they don't all have the same......understanding of life. Wink

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 19/09/2017 13:16

There's overlap, which is what made them happy to coalesce around Trump, but there are areas of conflict too - the "globalists" are at odds with the white supremacists (who despise and use the term globalists as a slur against Jewish people etc). But yes, they definitely have shared interests!

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 19/09/2017 13:22

I've dug out a twitter thread which details the history of the support for Trump. It was posted on here several threads ago but is an interesting perspective (sorry for cluttering up this thread with old news)

Sharon Furiosa
Sharon Furiosa @sfhater
I think a lot of people who wonder why more Republicans aren't standing up to tRump and Putin are missing the bigger picture.
Putin didn't create the move toward authoritarianism in the US. He took advantage of divisions and right-wing movements active for decades.
Populist and authoritarian movements have existed in the US throughout its history, most notably during and after Reconstruction.
The most current incarnation is an unholy trinity consisting of ultra-wealthy oligarchs, religious right, and white nationalists/populists.
Each of these groups has its own set of goals, and each has been working toward controlling US govt. since at least the 1970s.
What drove them to overlook differences and work together was election of a black president who attempted to pass health reform.
This is how it worked. In late 60s Republicans undertook Southern Strategy to co-opt bigoted white Democrats to Republican party.
They realized that even so they were losing information war and needed to put in place institutions/propaganda to legitimize their policies.
These goals were crystallized in the Powell Memo, which called for business to take America back and laid out the framework for doing so.
This memo resulted in a series of actions by business & the right: set up think tanks to legitimize views; undermine media fairness rules,
and form media companies to serve as propaganda arms, culminating with formation of Fox News and more recently, Breitbart.
At the same time, Evangelicals felt under siege due to the enormous social changes of 60s and 70s - civil rights, women's rights, etc.
Many of these organizations hopped on the corporate/Republican bandwagon and spread propaganda through religious media networks
So you had Pat Robertson's 700 Club, Christian radio networks, and a proliferation of televangelists spreading propaganda for Republicans.
As these religious groups gained more influence with Republicans, they influenced party policies and platforms.
Interestingly, the religious influence meshed with the corporate influence due to its embrace of "Prosperity Theology".
This is a sort of neo-Calvinist view that teaches wealth/success is a sign of god's blessing, and that poverty is the fault of the poor.
This belief has several negative outcomes. First, it makes poverty a personal problem rather than a systemic problem that govt. can solve.
Second, it prevents examination of the negative effects of income/wealth inequality and the systems that promote it.
It also leads poor to hold out hope that they're just "not rich yet" and to identify with the rich who rig the system for themselves.
The final leg in the unholy trinity is the white nationalists, who have also been known as populists, militia, Neo-Nazis, KKK, etc.
These groups have waxed and waned, but tend to revive whenever white men feel a particular threat to their entitlement (Obama/ Hillary).
Their interests overlap with religious right, which seeks a biblical rule (Christian Sharia Law if you will) that subordinates women to men.
Since Obama took office in 2008, this Unholy Trinity has worked full time to undermine Liberal Democracy and shift the Rep Party rightward.
Wealthy Oligarchs such as Kochs and Mercers funded training and campaigns for far-right candidates.
They also worked to undermine restrictions on soft money and influence of wealth on elections through such cases as Citizens United.
Corporate and religious right-wing media stoked a non-stop propaganda machine to gain support of white working class via racism/fear.
Putin's interests overlap with the Unholy Trinity (Christianity/Oligarchy/White Nationalism), and situation provided perfect opportunity.
I'm done for now - but keep these things in mind when you wonder why Republicans don't stand up to Putin. They mostly agree with him.
END

FOR FURTHER READING:

See the the text of the Powell Memo, along with analysis of its content, here: t.co/5paXFGizxM?amp=1

For a good summary of Prosperity Theology, see this Wikipedia entry:
t.co/MptTMZkFfN?amp=1

This article explains Nixon's Southern Strategy and how it made Trump possible: t.co/D4hmZcw5yZ?amp=1

This post discusses many US Oligarchs and how they funded the nation's shift rightward: t.co/UbhfWIEm1X?amp=1

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 19/09/2017 13:55

Julia Davis‏ @JuliaDavisNews

US considers shooting down #NorthKorea missiles even if they don't pose a direct threat

edition.cnn.com/2017/09/19/politics/us-north-korea-missile-mattis-options/index.html

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 19/09/2017 13:56

Noah Shachtman‏Verified account
@NoahShachtman

NEW: Watergate veteran now playing a key role in the Trump-Russia probe.

www.thedailybeast.com/watergate-veteran-takes-center-stage-in-trump-russia-probe?source=twitter&via=mobile

Watergate Veteran Takes Center Stage in Trump-Russia Probe

Pundits compare the Mueller investigation to Watergate approximately every 15 seconds. But the talking heads rarely mention that a Watergate veteran is a key player in the case.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 19/09/2017 13:57

Kyle Griffin‏Verified account @kylegriffin1

Eric Trump's foundation apparently held a secret event at a Trump-owned golf club while it's under investigation.

www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2017/09/18/eric-trumps-old-foundation-apparently-held-secret-event-at-trump-owned-golf-club/#7593f295759c

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 19/09/2017 14:21

(I have been very unproductive today and procrastinating to the max)

Meet the woman who warned about Russian election meddling years ago—and got death threats

qz.com/1076964/this-us-official-warned-about-russia-using-the-internet-to-skew-us-elections-years-ago-she-got-death-threats/

lionheart · 19/09/2017 15:14

Trump is speaking reading at the UN again.

cozietoesie · 19/09/2017 15:17

If anyone has a fresh brain. A Lawfare piece with Mr Wittes as one of the authors.

A quick and dirty analysis

yolofish · 19/09/2017 15:20

oh fuck, he's on Sky News at the moment talking about Rocket Man....

cozietoesie · 19/09/2017 15:27

Meanwhile. In other news - about hurricanes...... A Beast piece.

Officials beg

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 19/09/2017 15:39

Shareblue Media‏Verified account @Shareblue
Donald Trump is now speaking before the United Nations.

THREAD

"The US has done very well since the election on 11/8 ..."

He's talking about the stock market and companies "moving back."

Stump speech.

Bragging about $700 billion just approved for the US military and how the US will have the strongest military in the world.

"Rogue regimes represented by this body threaten not only their own people" but everyone else.

He's going full nationalist in this part.

"It's up to us whether we lift the world to new heights or let it fall into a valley of disrepair."

🙄

Now he is re-writing history and saying that the UN was founded after WWII to promote nationalism rather than confront its dangers.

He's repeating "strong, sovereign nations" and "intended by God" repeatedly.

"We do not seek to impose our way of life on anyone"

So promoting democracy is now officially no longer a plank of US foreign policy.

Talking about the Constitution and claiming he represents the "sovereignty of the people" – except he did NOT win the popular vote.

Says he will "always put America first, just as you should always put the people of your countries first."

"The US will always be a great friend of the world – and especially to its allies."

(Trump has betrayed all of our allies.)

"But we will no longer allow ourselves to be TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF ..."

And going on about his transactional view of everything.

"We did not seek territorial expansion or attempt to impose our way of life on others."

He's referring to WWII.

"We are guided by OUTCOMES, not IDEOLOGY."

That is ... a complete betrayal of American values.

Going back the the WWII thing:

He literally wants cookies for the fact that the US didn't take over the UK or Western Europe after WWII.

"If the righteous men do not confront the wicked few, then evil will triumph."

He's talking re ISIS and NK.

But it applies to Trump admin.

Now Trump appears to be laying out his case for war against North Korea.

Trump says no nation should trade with NK – but it's RUSSIA that does so.

Doesn't name Russia but instead is solely focusing on China.

"We will DESTROY" North Korea.

Telling the UN it's their job to prevent the need to do so.

Refers again to "Rocket Man."

Now he's transitioned to Iran.

Attacking Iran full-on.

RUSSIA is also an ally of Iran, which Trump doesn't address.

"We cannot allow a murderous regime to build nuclear missiles & we cannot abide by an agreement if it provides cover for a nuclear program."

Trump is using his speech before the UN – a body founded by the US to help BRING WORLD PEACE – to make a case for TWO NUCLEAR WARS.

Now he has moved on the "radical Islamic terrorism" and ISIS.

He's war-mongering toward almost every possible target.

It's hard to imagine how this speech could be WORSE.

He is LITERALLY war-mongering in front of a intl body that exists to maintain peace.

"The US is a compassionate nation and has spent billions and billions of dollars to help" refugees.

"Out of the goodness of our hearts we offer financial support to nations that will accept refugees."

"The United States leads the world in humanitarian relief ..."

Trump's budget seeks to slash and/or eliminate much of that funding.

"To often, the focus of this organization has not been on results but on process and bureaucracy."

"The United States is only one of many nations, but we pay 22% of the UN budget ..."

"Major portions of the world are in conflict, and some in fact are going to hell."

Yes, he said "going to hell."

"We will not lift sanctions on the Cuban government until it enacts major reforms"

"We instituted sanctions against socialist Venezuela"

Minutes after saying he will NOT impose US will or ideology onto other countries, Trump doubles down on sanctions against socialist nations.

[it's still a developing thread as Trump is still speaking but I'm unable to manage watching him speak any more. Rest of thread here:
twitter.com/Shareblue/status/910142637637865472 )

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