Is this unreasonable punishment from Teacher of 5 year old?

[sharond101]

DS is 5. He has never been in trouble before, not really but there was incident at school yesterday and a boy told him to pull down a little girl's pants which he did and she told the Teacher. He had his picture put on a dark cloud on the wall and given Time Out which meant yesterday and today he spent playtime in the class without adult supervision drawing pictures whilst the other children played outdoors. What has really annoyed me though is that when the Teacher returned after breaktime she took his picture off him and put it in the bin. He is very upset. Says he doesn't want to go to school and that she (teacher) shouts all the time.

Yabvu - your ds has done something like this and you're thinking of complaining about his picture?! Ridiculous. I would back up the school 100% on this, he can't be left thinking the teacher has done wrong or been unfair and his own actions was no big deal. If any of my sons did that I'd be so disappointed in them and definitely not sympathising with them or thinking they are the victim in the senario.

He wasn't supposed to be making a nice drawing for fun though, was he?

Staying in was supposed to be a punishment for bad behaviour. The teacher probably took the drawing away because she thought showing it off the way he wanted to would turn the punishment into a treat.

It wasn't art time, it was a punishment. So he doesn't get to show off his art. I'm sure it wasn't done spitefully, but with the intention that he remembers bad behaviour means no fun and no rewards.

That's what school is for, to teach children how to behave in the world

Isn't the main part of that the parents' responsibility?

Osela
then she shouldnt have let him draw then should she?

What 5 yr old thinks "I am sad I cant play with my friends so I will draw a picture of me playing with my friends, even though the teacher is going to put it in the bin afterwards to give me extra punishment" ?
Its not the first time I have heard this done by some teachers and I bet she did it without explaination, very cruel.

The whole thing has been handled badly, op should have been told and the whole thing and the punishment explained to her not left to a 5 yr old to get more worried about on his own.

I'm siding with the teacher here. Spare a thought for the poor girl who was arguably sexually assaulted by your son.

I'm interested in this: He has never been in trouble before, not really

Never or not really? Also, he's 5 and just started school so how much opportunity has there really been. In his first weeks of school he's been in fairly serious trouble. That's something to watch. Don't let your kid be THAT kid.

Look - I know it sucks when your kid gets into trouble. It's a horrible, horrible feeling. Especially when your kid has done something as nasty as pulling down someone's pants. I'd be gutted if my son had done that - truly gutted. If this happened to my daughter I'd be furious at the bully (yes, he was a bully) and equally if my child had been the bully I'd have been mortified. I'd make sure he knew that. I wouldn't be letting him distract the issue with tales of 'poor me' about a picture, as you are doing. I wouldn't be accepting him deferring blame 'Another boy told me to do it' either.

It feels horrible when your kid is in trouble but how YOU handle this will be part of the reason that this either never happens again or happens to you regularly from now on.

I think you should be focusing on your child's behaviour not the teacher's. This is a just typical child's attempt to deflect attention away from their poor behaviour by getting someone else in trouble.

I'm sure a teacher was keeping an eye on him
As for throwing the picture in the bin, that's fine, it was part of the punishment. A way to underline "you lost your break for no reason" - the point was not to draw a picture and then have time to look at it!

You are worrying about the wrong thing, you should be far more concerned with what he did to that girl.

Presumably you are going to ask what actually happened tomorrow op. I very much doubt it will be what you have been told.

You really need to clarify what happened.

Did the teacher tell you he did this to the little girl? If not, that's quite strange as it's very serious even at 5. I'd also question the fact that he was unsupervised - was that just his take on it? If I've kept children in at play, I've always been just outside the room marking or tidying. That may make a child think they're alone but obviously I'm right there.

As for the picture, I'm afraid I wouldn't have let him colour. If a child in my class had done something serious, they'd have sat in silence. It's not often that I've kept a child in but what's the point in keeping them in and letting them do something enjoyable?

Are you sure she threw the picture away? It may seem cruel, but it was a punishment after all. Maybe she put it somewhere for him to have later. Again, needs clarification.

It also should have been clarified at the time, because if that had been my son, I'd have wanted to have a stern word too, had he done something like that. I'd have wanted to ensure it was never done again, yet it sounds like maybe you've pandered to him.

Next time, if there is one, try and speak to the teacher immediately. This time, I'd say move on.

I don't think throwing the drawing in the bin would boost his confidence

YABVVVU really? you are concerned about DS's confidence?!! What about the confidence of the little girl your little snowflake assaulted??!! Did you phone the parents of the little girl to apologize for your bad parenting??

Jayne I spotted that too.
Maybe a case of school and home having different expectations? So parent doesn't see it as misbehaving but school does?

Sorry but she sounds like a bully to me. I would want to know why she hadn't brought this behaviour to my attention first and foremost!

'Another boy told me to do it'

A golden opportunity to explain to your DS that just because someone tells you to do something you don't have to do it.

Is he 5 in reception (so just 5 and not been at school before) or 5 plus a bit and in year 1?

I do think there is a difference

My neice is 5 and would have been very distressed if someone pulled down her pants at school. I have zero sympathy for you or your son -you should have given him even more of a punishment at home for breaking the privacy rule not trying to find ways to take the teacher down.

Teacher here.

If this happened in my class, punishment would not be my first aim but making sure the child understood it was very wrong.

If the child has just been made to stay in at break, and draw, does he actually understand it's wrong?

I'd have- if possible- spent some time with the child, and explained why exactly it was wrong. I'd then contact both parents and tell them. If both parents were happy, I'd then organise for the boy to apologise to the girl himself, making sure he knows what he has done is wrong, whilst reassuring the girl that it won't happen again and making sure that the girl knows nobody should EVER do something like that to her.

So it's not so much the punishment for me, but making sure the child is aware it is wrong. Taking away a few breaks to stay inside and draw isn't going to teach your DS anything.

With an older child, I'd expect a written apology not a drawing, to give to the girl, with a follow up conversation to ensure the child knows it's wrong.

The poor little girl :-(

I think you need to have a word with your son to make sure he understands why what he did was wrong, and why there were consequences for it.

My DS started school at 4 in his first week while in the toilet some P7s slapped his bottom when he was peeing (no hole in little boy pants). He remembers now 4 years later he also knew at the time it was wrong and you shouldn't be touching or displaying anyone else's private parts as they are private. Nothing sexual just private. If he knew at 4 being 5 isn't an excuse. You do need to speak to the school but you need to talk to your DS about boundaries and make sure he understands what he did.

The other child needs to be on the radar of the child welfare officer at this point.

Leaving a child unsupervised in a classroom as punishment is a breach of safety regs, and throwing the picture in the bin is a psychological and emotional element that is not acceptable.

Name in a cloud - fine.
Talk to the whole class about keeping our hands to ourselves - overdue perhaps.
Restriction of playtime - not fine for more than one day and it has to be supervised time out.

If you talk to the school about this, please leave out the bit where you worry about your son's confidence. Make sure the school knows that you are 100% horrified at the effect your son's actions must have had on the little girl, and apologise profusely for this. But you are on solid ground wrt the lack of supervision and the cruelty involved in throwing out his picture.

misshelena

'bad parenting' really? A 5yr old made a misteak, like all of us do. Its not down to bad parenting.

He has been punished. He will know not to do it again. I am sure they made him apologise at school. Its not going to be on a criminal record for the rest of his life.

Professorcat
If it wasnt until the following evening that the op found out what happened, how was she to go straight to the teacher? They should have told her the day it happened and explained the punishment.

If the teacher didnt want him to 'enjoy' his time in the classroom that should have been made clear at the outset, that he was to sit and do nothing for one playtime, not left with crayons then taking the picture and putting it in the bin and not 2 days of playtime.

I am sure OP has had words with her child about what he did and why it was wrong. Nobody is saying what he did was ok or not upsetting to the girl but how long is she meant to punish him for?

Wolf excellent post. Thats what should have happened, the punishment was not thought out at all very confusing to a 5 yr old to be left to draw, the teacher obviously let him have the crayons or didnt tell him to sit quietly on his own, then having it taken away from him. Its not teaching him anything related to what he did.

Yes five is young but not too young that you don't pull down the underwear of another child. I hope he apologised.
My DD and some other girls had hard time in P1 with boys ' playing' chase the girl and kiss them. She didn't like it she said no it kept on. she told the teacher nothing done. It was being minimised as a game and only when she got upset about it at home and I found out did it stop. And that's because I I asked the teacher at what age is it ok for a girl to say no and the boy take That as no and for adults in charge to take action.
This stuff needs cracked down on. If not at 5 when?
If it was one of my DS I'd be genuinely furious with them and be punishing at home too not worrying about a picture.

And the school is out of order for not telling you on the day this happened.

That is if that is what happened. It is of course possible that a 5yr old who didn't want his mum to be cross with him is shifting the focus onto him being wronged.
The op needs to speak to the teacher and find out what has happened.

Willow2017

Yes, that's what I mean. I find it very odd that the teacher would not immediately inform a parent of something so serious. It would have been a huge red flag in my school and would have been addressed that day. OP needs to find out what really happened.