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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To distance myself from pregnant friend due to way she treats step-daugther

230 replies

Eastie77 · 13/09/2017 22:58

Close friend is pregnant with her first child. She has a 6 year old step daughter. She has never had any problems with DSD that I'm aware of and they've always had a good relationship. DSD visits regularly.

A couple of weeks ago we went out for lunch. She said she has become quite anxious as her pregnancy has progressed and is worried about something happening to the baby. As a result she has told her DH that she does not want her DSD to visit for the remainder of her pregnancy or be around when baby is born for the first few months as she wants to create a' cocoon' for the 3 of them. She asked me to tell her truthfully what I thought of this. I replied that I imagined her DSD would be devastated that she cannot see her dad or new sibling. At this point friend began to cry. I apologized for upsetting her. Lunch ended, hugged her goodbye although she still looked quite upset.

Later in the week she sent me a message stating that she had thought about my comment but decided to stick to her guns and had instructed her DH to tell daughter she cannot visit (he can go to visit her but friend does not want him to go too often as she has no family support and doesn’t want to be on her own for a whole weekend). She said she had spoken about the situation with another friend of ours who had told her that her feelings were 100% natural as when you are pregnant you become a lioness who just wants to protect her cub or something along those lines Confused. She went on to add that I shouldn’t judge until I’ve walked in her shoes. I have 2 small DC (no step children) but she seemed to be suggesting that as I didn’t suffer from anxiety during either of my pregnancies I don’t know how she feels. I actually was quite anxious at times but that’s a different story. I didn’t reply to the message or any subsequent ones and I know she is upset about this.

I’m probably projecting but I have a mental image of a 6 year old girl crying and traumatized as she suddenly can’t visit her dad. I want to support friend during her pregnancy, I’m sorry she’s suffering from anxiety but I’m horrified at her behaviour and cannot bring myself to contact her Sad.

OP posts:
thethoughtfox · 14/09/2017 10:09

"My friend has told him that the stress of having DSD around may harm the baby"

Either she is emotionally blackmailing him and using this as an excuse to push his existing family away, or she has never really accepted that child and her pregnancy hormones have magnified this. Either way, she is not to fit to be a stepmother and I would hope he would end this relationship.

Idontevencareanymore · 14/09/2017 10:21

I know someone that did this.
Wife didn't like (was jealous) if the step daughter and her mum, husband just dumped step daughter and now he's divorced with no step daughter and little contact with new children.

She's using new baby as an excuse to push sd out. Let's hope dad has more morals than to allow it

Trunkisareshite · 14/09/2017 10:23

Lumping her DSD in with 'all the visitors' sums up how she sees her.

She's not a visitor she should be considered immediate family and treated as such.

DiscoDiva70 · 14/09/2017 10:24

I'd put money on it that within a year or so your friend will start laying down the law regarding her partner 'paying too much' child maintenance

The way she sounds, her resentfulness of her partners child will continue if this is how spiteful she's being at the moment. .

The writing is on the wall.

albertatrilogy · 14/09/2017 10:31

Though MN tends to hate all stepmothers with a passion, this doesn't strike me as situtation which is good for anyone.

The pregnant woman is obviously highly stressed. This isn't great for the baby she is carrying. There's no guarantee that when the baby is born she will be able to cope with a vulnerable new human being when her ability to assess risk is so off the scale. It's likely that midwives, health visitors etc will become concerned or involved.

I can't imagine it's an easy situation for her partner who is trying to balance his loyalties to a pregnant woman and his daughter from a previous marriage. The people involved in second marriages have to be quite robust and they frequently fail. Things aren't sounding great.

Yes, things aren't looking brilliant for the six year old. But it does sound as if both her mother and her father care for her and hopefully their love will get her through the testing months ahead.

ElsieMc · 14/09/2017 10:33

I became depressed before the birth of my second child. I just wasn't interested in scans, appointments etc although I attended them. I had this horrible feeling of foreboding. Instead of feeling overly protective of the new baby, I felt very protective of my first dd because I was worried she would feel pushed out in any way following the birth and focussed upon this.

Essentially, for me it worked in the opposite way. When she was born, I did everything by the book, but felt strangely distant. It took me a long time to bond, which I still feel guilty about because she was such a lovely girl.

I think this is very worrying indeed. She will be damaging her new babies relationships by keeping everyone away and denying her a happy relationship with her sister and grandparents. How on earth will she manage with school/nursery? She cannot remove germy or unacceptable people from the classroom can she?

I don't know here op, it does sound very strange indeed particularly if she has had a good relationship with dsd up until now. I hope her dad steps up to the mark here and does not go for the quiet life.

Northend77 · 14/09/2017 10:34

What will she do if she has a second child?! Will her first have to be kept in isolation until the 2nd has had it's vaccinations too?!

Eastie77 · 14/09/2017 10:36

When I criticised her she cried and said she has always adored DSD and still does. And it's true, she has always displayed warmth and affection in the past. I don't think she loves her as she would her own child but I imagine (having never been a step parent myself) that it's hard to really feel the same bond with a SC as you would with your own.

This horrendous behaviour has only come to the fore in the last few weeks which has made me think it is the anxiety getting on top of her and why I've told her she must seek help. I'm not sure another message repeating that I think she is selfish and is damaging DD will help now. She knows that's what I think as it's basically what I said over lunch. I really hope she gets helpSad

OP posts:
NoYouDontKnowItAll · 14/09/2017 10:37

Reading about this kinda made my blood run cold. It's a real concern that people so easily dismiss unkind or vindictive personalities as mental health problems when in most cases the person is just a bitch nothing more. Wouldn't know if the woman in question on this thread has genuine problems or not but am talking generally.

As someone who gave birth five times alone and has no family I find her whole cocoon and shutting people out thing really sick. This happens day after day that extended families get shut out (some for a good reason sure but I mean when there isn't) and the (usually mother) doesn't seem to care or realize they're hurting their child as much as the other relatives. Hope that makes sense

lazyarse123 · 14/09/2017 10:58

This is the most appalling thread I have read in a long time and we have had some doozies. She may as well say to the sc we no longer want you as we are having one of our own. I can't comprehend how someone could think like that. As a pp said I too am sick of all the "mental health" bollocks. It's on a par with all the bratty kids being labelled sn..YANBU.

DiscoDiva70 · 14/09/2017 11:54

Out of interest OP, did your friend also ask you not to visit when the baby is born?

ShiveryTimbers · 14/09/2017 12:10

Awful and very upsetting to even read about.

Just wondering if she may be suffering from prenatal depression? If it is out of character, you might mention it to her or her DH and suggest she speaks to her GP about her anxiety to see if they can help.

stitchglitched · 14/09/2017 12:19

This is very sad. I was 5 when my half sister was born and my stepmum really went the extra mile to ensure that I wasn't left out. She even bought me a little doll and baby bath, and we used to bath our 'babies' together!

My sister had her first baby last year and most of her anxiety was around ensuring that her beloved stepson didn't feel displaced or less loved by her.

I don't think MH issues are an explanation for such cruelty towards a young child. I hope her husband stands firm that his child won't be pushed out like this.

SwimmingInLemonade · 14/09/2017 12:23

It sounds as if she might have some genuine anxiety issues but she is also being an utter bitch! As pp have said, you could emphasise the logical arguments against this without explicitly telling her she's being horrible - that she won't be able to ship off her first born when she has her second, that her baby and the dsd will need to bond and cutting out the dsd could build up huge resentment.

To be fair the "lioness" comparison is very accurate - males kill all the existing cubs so only their own bloodlines survive. Biological instincts eh Hmm

BertieBotts · 14/09/2017 12:38

Honestly, I think that her behaviour probably seems very reasonable in her own mind.

I don't think it's a mental health problem. I don't think it's actually particularly unusual, although I 100% agree with you that it's unfair and harmful to her stepdaughter. You'll get the impression that it is unusual on MN because MN tends to be the perspectives of women who are already parents, and might well have children who are somebody else's stepchildren, and so the thought of our own child being treated this way makes our blood run cold, but the stepmother isn't seeing the situation from the perspective of her stepchild, she's seeing it from the perspective of herself and/or her new baby. It's very rare on MN for a woman who is a stepmother without her own children, or a stepmother who is planning for or pregnant with her first biological child to actually have a voice, partly because most people don't find MN until after they have children, but partly also because they get this hostile response so if they do ever express feelings like this they learn very fast never to do so again. Bear in mind as well that some MNers are dealing with exes and step-parents who were the Other Woman.

But I think it is very difficult for stepmothers to navigate this kind of situation. There is so very little to prepare anybody for parenthood; there is even less, in fact, probably no resources or support at all for step-parenting, especially step-mothering.

Think about how you felt about DC before you had them, it was likely to be unrealistic, you probably had some ideas that you look back on and cringe at. If you think about how you acted around friends' kids that might be some help as well. Women who enter into a relationship with a man who has children don't magically gain insight and knowledge into how to be a parent upon doing so, and because separated fathers tend to have their children much less than 50% of the time, it's really not a situation where she ends up gaining those skills or knowledge. Not all separated fathers are great fathers either, there are huge challenges there, some men manage to rise to the challenge and be an appropriate father to their children, but many fall into the trap of wanting their more limited time with their children to be special or magical or always perfectly happy and so they end up in this "Disney Dad" kind of pattern which would simply not be sustainable with children who were around more of the time.

Plus there is socialisation at play in that we (rightly) tend to think of a child's relationship with their biological mother, especially if they live with them most of the time as being of utmost importance and so I'd imagine that being a stepmother is quite difficult as on one hand you want to get to know your partner's children and develop a good relationship with them, but on the other hand you can't be a mother to them, as they already have a mother, and you probably don't want to encroach too much on your partner's time with them, particularly in the early stages of a relationship and you probably get into the habit of hanging back a bit. So I think that many stepmothers end up developing a kind of auntie, or family-friend relationship with their stepkids rather than a parental one, and in many cases this is absolutely appropriate, but it all gets messed up when you introduce a new baby into the mix.

Again, I'll go back to the point which I can't really hammer home enough: Nobody gives you a manual for parenthood, the transition into motherhood is incredibly hard, but lots of people will give you advice. Nobody hands out manuals or advice for step-parenthood, and so even if you did manage to get some idea about what the transition to motherhood is going to be like and how you should handle it, you might as well just throw it all away, because the situation is so massively different, and very delicate to boot. There are so many more things to get wrong, and of course you're going to get some things wrong because you're human. But also, with your first child, everyone is giving you the normal messages which they give to new parents in ordinary situations and much of it is inappropriate. Like, for example, creating a sacred space between you, your partner and the new baby. Absolutely appropriate for most people, definitely not for step parents, because the stepchildren need to be supported and actively shown that they are still accepted and loved and have a definite place within this family. You lose out on a lot of the expected "first parent experiences", and that must be incredibly hard. I mean, ideally you've got to create, before the new baby arrives, the feeling that the stepchildren are also "yours". Not in the same way as they are the children of their biological mother, but you've got to actually place yourself in a parental position, a position which doesn't really have a name or a precedent, where you're their parent but not their main parent. Where they are accepted and loved and absolutely your childrens' sibling[s], and that they also only happen to live there part time. It's a bloody difficult concept to get anyone's head around and rather unlikely to occur to anybody in advance, so I think MN's (collective) expectation that all stepmums immediately get this right and never make any mistakes at all is really unrealistic and quite unfair actually. Though it's difficult because it is the stepchildren who end up suffering and feeling rejected when it goes wrong, and as a separated mother (and a stepdaughter myself!) I can totally relate to sadness about children feeling pushed out. It probably also doesn't help if the father of the baby is (consciously or not) seeing this as a "new family" and acting as such, rather than that he is extending his existing family - again v complicated, because he's probably doing this for a multitude of reasons including wanting his current partner to feel that she is not second to his ex, and that the experience of a new baby is as special to her as it was to him when he did it for the first time.

If I could have any advice for a stepmother who is about to become a mother, it would be to read books about sibling relationships and how to deal with having multiple children, (I recommend "Siblings Without Rivalry") and she'll have to adapt the text and read between the lines a lot to change it for her own situation, which is also what she'll need to do with the traditional baby books, BTW - but mainly to understand the importance of making the older children feel accepted and included, and also to understand that her experience of new motherhood is going to be drastically different to that of other women who are not stepmothers, and she really needs to deal with her feelings about that, grieve if necessary (and it might be) but basically come to accept that her situation is just different, but that it will be okay and there are huge benefits to it as well.

Kissisforpirate · 14/09/2017 12:40

If this is out of character and she admits she's feeling anxious then it's a mental health issue. Is she worried the baby might die? Because that worry does funny things to .
Has she been pregnant before? Had a miscarriage or stillbirth?
Her level of anxiety is not right and she needs help. In her head, if its 'keep visitors away or invite them and baby dies' then the obvious solution is to keep ppl away. Its not rational, the effects are cruel, but if she sees those as her only options then her decision makes sense.
But it's not healthy or right and she neefs mental health support from her midwife. She may hate herself for tjis decision but cannot see another way out.

vitalite · 14/09/2017 13:02

Well done for telling her what you actually think about this hairbrained plan of hers! Your other friend probably just doesn't want to upset her and so is telling her what she wants to hear. But seriously, this is nuts! Maybe her oh is hoping that as the pregnancy progresses she'll hangs her mind and start to see sense and doesn't see any point in arguing about it until nearer the time. Although he should really just nip this right
In the bud before it gets to that stage. Bonkers!

BertieBotts · 14/09/2017 13:13

Yes actually - Kiss is absolutely right and I hadn't thought of it from that perspective. When you're desperate and genuinely don't see any other options you will act in ways which seem illogical to others.

If it's not the clash of stepmotherhood and motherhood, it could be that.

Beadieeye · 14/09/2017 14:03

I've never ever heard of antenatal depression, depression or anxiety (clinical anxiety, not 'feeling anxious) making people start being cruel to specific children (any negative feelings are attached to the baby and/or themselves). Poor mental health doesn't mean you're a shitty person. I don't like how it crops up as an explanation for awful behaviour all the time.
How about not pointing out an undiagnosed mental health condition, promulgating stigmas to the detriment of people living with these illnesses and simply letting her know that she is not the first person ever to have fallen pregnant, that she does not need a cocoon of BS, that babies sleep through hoovering, and are more likely to catch a virus from the mother than a sibling?

Kissisforpirate · 14/09/2017 15:26

Poor mental health can make you act like a shitty person though. If you're ill enough you can't stop yourself.
I recognise the absolute and panic the op's friend may be feeling. It's incapacitating and it's horrible to experience.

scrabbler3 · 14/09/2017 15:28

Sometimes people are just poisonous and it's nothing to do with mental ill-health.

However, I'd encourage her to talk to a midwife about all this to rule out health problems before you ditch her. Offer to go along if she needs support.

lalalalyra · 15/09/2017 03:37

I think you missed a big part of the story out of your op - she's not only cutting out her step-daughter, she's also cutting out her own mother and her mother in law.

That could be a very different thing. Cutting out a child is nasty. Being paranoid about germs and "something" to the extent that she only wants her, her DH and their baby is another.

Your friend needs help.

livefornaps · 15/09/2017 08:15

@bertiebotts, excellent, intelligent points

Eastie77 · 15/09/2017 11:46

@BertieBotts - what you write does makes sense. If my friend was not a step-parent none of this would really be a big issue and many would see her wish to create this 'cocoon' as perfectly normal.

As others have said, there are dozens of MN threads where FTM's are told that they should put themselves and baby first by delaying visitors and spending time as just a little family unit. However with
a small step child involved this isn't acceptable. And indeed, she doesn't have any way of navigating this because it's her first child, she has no real experience of motherhood and she seems oblivious about impact this will have on DSD.

On the other hand, I have to say that as clueless as I was when I had my first child I think her position I would have been able to rationally see that excluding a 6 year old in this way is awful. No-one gives you a parenthood manual but do you really need one to avoid being cruel to a small child.

Since she is not behaving rationally and in all the years I have known her she has always been kind and generous (she was always affectionate towards her DSD and I don't think the act of falling pregnant can suddenly transform your personality) I can only conclude that there is a MH issue in the mix. I'm explaining this badly but I think if you're an unkind person, you're an unkind person. Falling pregnant doesn't suddenly 'reveal' this, it would be apparent beforehand.

To the person who asked up thread, yes I assume I am also not welcome to visit before the baby has his/her vaccinations. She didn't mention otherwise.

OP posts:
MipMipMip · 15/09/2017 12:24

Op, can you contact her husband and say you're worried añd he needs to make sure the midwife knows what's going in? Ideally without her there so she doesn't feel he's against her and the midwife can drop in things about the children bonding, low risks etc and get her help if needed?