To distance myself from pregnant friend due to way she treats step-daugther

[Eastie77]

Close friend is pregnant with her first child. She has a 6 year old step daughter. She has never had any problems with DSD that I'm aware of and they've always had a good relationship. DSD visits regularly.

A couple of weeks ago we went out for lunch. She said she has become quite anxious as her pregnancy has progressed and is worried about something happening to the baby. As a result she has told her DH that she does not want her DSD to visit for the remainder of her pregnancy or be around when baby is born for the first few months as she wants to create a' cocoon' for the 3 of them. She asked me to tell her truthfully what I thought of this. I replied that I imagined her DSD would be devastated that she cannot see her dad or new sibling. At this point friend began to cry. I apologized for upsetting her. Lunch ended, hugged her goodbye although she still looked quite upset.

Later in the week she sent me a message stating that she had thought about my comment but decided to stick to her guns and had instructed her DH to tell daughter she cannot visit (he can go to visit her but friend does not want him to go too often as she has no family support and doesn’t want to be on her own for a whole weekend). She said she had spoken about the situation with another friend of ours who had told her that her feelings were 100% natural as when you are pregnant you become a lioness who just wants to protect her cub or something along those lines . She went on to add that I shouldn’t judge until I’ve walked in her shoes. I have 2 small DC (no step children) but she seemed to be suggesting that as I didn’t suffer from anxiety during either of my pregnancies I don’t know how she feels. I actually was quite anxious at times but that’s a different story. I didn’t reply to the message or any subsequent ones and I know she is upset about this.

I’m probably projecting but I have a mental image of a 6 year old girl crying and traumatized as she suddenly can’t visit her dad. I want to support friend during her pregnancy, I’m sorry she’s suffering from anxiety but I’m horrified at her behaviour and cannot bring myself to contact her .

she is pushing DSD out because she 'taints' her perfect family set up.
I dont think she is unwell (and apologies if she is). I have seen it happen many times (my dad included).
How would she feel in a few years time if this was her DC that another woman was refusing to let come over?

I really hope the dad tells her that she is being fucking out of order. He might not have control over who comes in the house (controlling much) but he can take her to stay in a hotel for the weekend to make a point that she will not dictate that he can or can't see his daughter

My god, this is horrible, being so cruel to a six-year-old.

What the OP's pregnant (ex)friend doesn't seem to realise is that it will hurt her child, too, by denying the new baby a relationship with their sister. How horrible all round.

I think it all came to a head when the DSCs had to eat their Christmas dinner on another table while the "proper" family ate together.

Slarti that's just amazing, like a scene in a Roald Dahl film where the villains are shown! I just want to shake people like this and shout "JUST LOOK AT YOURSELVES".

How can her husband have any kind of love or respect for her when she's actively trying to push his daughter out of the family? Any half decent parent would never allow this to happen so I hope he doesn't.
The woman herself doesn't deserve to be a parent since she's already emotionally abusing her stepchild. Unless this is a MH issue.
Can you speak to her husband? Or her midwife about her mental health just in case it is that. She needs either a care and support plan in place or to be told what she's doing is abuse.

Typical MN responses here. Woman behaves like a grade A bitch but is she a bitch? Oh no, must be suffering from mental illness while meanwhile the man is a spineless arsehole.

Or perhaps the woman is just a grade A bitch and the man is in an emotionally abusive relationship. Except women can do no wrong on MN, their anything they do must be because they're mentally ill. .

Thing is, this is a really common occurrence within step families and unfortunately it is usually women behind it. But there are and have been multiple posts on mn over time about how they would rather the DSC not be in certain scenarios, how they should be allowed to settle in with their little family post birth, even stating that they shouldn't have to take the DSC round when they visit family because it's their children's family, and there are always a band of people behind them to agree with them, and anyone who disagrees clearly doesn't understand even when those people are themselves step parents.

I would cut her off and I would make it clear in no uncertain terms why. If she needs support she can go and find it from the health visitor, but most likely what she needs is to be told that she's being a bitch and to snap out of it.

Tell her you HAVE been in her shoes.

You have two DC, right? If you were to follow her chain of thinking then you would have to banish your first child when pregnanct with your second so as not to rock your 'cacoon' which is fucking ludicrous.

The woman is acting ridiculously and sort but this lioness and cub thing is putting a twee spin on her being a self absorbed insensitive selfish person

She needs to get help with this. Big time.

@TheRealBiscuitAddict I totally get what you're saying but the OP mentioned that it's out of character for the woman, and that it extends to her DM and MIL, so although the most appalling part of all this is the poor step daughter, it does seem like she's already planning to cut herself off with her newborn - which can be a sign of pre-natal anxiety.

I'm not saying it is - but the behaviour is so appalling I think people almost want to find a reason, rather than accept that someone can just merrily cut out their step daughter. I know it happens, some women are truly awful, but there are a few things OP has mentioned that just made me consider it.

I've read it all now. This is absolutely horrendous behaviour.

That poor kid, I hope her dad grows a pair and stops this ridiculous behaviour.

I had my DSC to stay as usual on their weekend when DS was 3 days old. Didn't do him any harm.

And yet on MN people actively advocate no visitors including mothers and MIL's for the first few weeks and nobody bats an eyelid at that.

If this woman didn't have a stepdaughter and had said to the OP that she's told her mum and MIL that they cannot visit for the first few weeks nobody would be saying that she needed professional help, they'd be saying good on her and to do what she felt was right for her baby and them as this is a precious time for them as a new family.

So if we want to go the MH route, perhaps the MN stance needs to change for the no visitors for first few weeks as well? Since in RL this generally isn't the norm either.

According to the Old Testament. Sarah was unable to get pregnant with Abraham and told him to get her handmaiden Hagar, pregnant and they would rear the child, Ishmael, as their own. Later Sarah has her own son, Isaac, by Abraham and tells Abraham to get rid of (kill) Hagar and Ishmael. Hagar survives with her baby and Muslims believe that the Jews are descended through Isaac and Arabs through Ishmael.
Only a story but it illustrates how common it is for some stepmothers to want to reject their husbands first born children. Not saying most women don't rise above it though.

Origin of the book The Handmaid's Tale

What a selfish excuse of a woman. This baby will and rightfully should be a part of the step daughter's life so why shouldn't she visit? She will begin to feel unwanted by her father and this will have a massive impact on her later on in life. If hubby goes along with this he's a massive twat also.

If one of my friends said this to me I would reply in the same way as you and I would also be thinking the same way as you. That little girl has done nothing wrong.

She's told her DH it could be harmful to the unborn baby, which is what he's concerned about.

TBH normally I'd be saying don't get involved in someone's relationship but it seems she's isolating both herself and DH from everyone. He very likely needs someone to tell him what she's suggesting re DSD is not on. His own judgment may be clouded by his previous 'failed relationship', and that he only had her input in this.

I imagine a lot of the people she 'doesn't want around' would be the type to try and open DHs eyes about this.

Honestly, if the roles were reversed, no one would be blaming MH problems, but would be saying the DH is emotionally and financially abusive (the bit about her owning the house and feeling like she can control who visits stands out to me, also not wanting other people around).
This is exactly the same, except this woman has more leverage (biological child).

She may well be suffering from MH issues, but she knows what she wants to do is wrong, hence searching for validation from first you and then another friend (until someone agreed with her).
Knowing the difference between right and wrong plays a massive factor in being held responsible imo.

OP, if you feel comfortable doing so, I would honestly try offering some advice to the DH.
As many pp have suggested, what if he had another child with her, would she banish tat child during and straight after pregnancy?

She's already dismissed your response about it, and tried to prove to you that she's right so I doubt she'd listen to anything else you say, speaking to the DH is the only way to help DSD (if you so wish)

*You know I care about you and wish to support you, but I cannot support you in this and I cannot pretend I think it is OK. DSD is a fact of your dh's life and of your baby's life, and therefore of your life. Your actions stand to destroy a father-daughter relationship, ruin a little girl's security and trust in relationships for years to come, prevent a potentially lovely bond between siblings and destroy your own relationship, as your dh will inevitably resent you for putting him in this intensely painful position. This will damage your baby due to damage to the relationship with his/her father.

It is not normal to exclude a child from her normal contact with her father due to your anxiety. If you are worried about health, know that contact with his/her sister will help build your baby's immune system. Many, many babies grow up with older siblings happily and healthily. It is not healthy for anyone involved to create a 'cocoon' to the exclusion of vital relationships in your new family's life. Do not forget that your DSD has a legal and moral right to a relationship with her father. Please be honest with yourself. If it is really your anxiety driving this behaviour, please confide in your midwife and/or GP and get help. If you won't seek help and reconsider, I'm afraid I cannot promise to 'not think badly' of you, as a continuation of this behaviour will lead me to think very badly of you indeed. I am sorry to be so blunt about this, but what you are proposing is awful and I am very worried about your DSD and, because I believe this is out of character, about you.*

Perfect response.

I'd also be tempted to talk directly to her DH if this doesn't work. She won't like it but what have you got to lose? The friendship will be spoiled anyway. I'd lose complete respect for her.

I think you have to say clearly in your own words that you cannot stomach her damaging a young child by her behaviour. And that pushing her dsd out of the family isn't justifiable by any 'mama bear' excuse, it's an unnecessary and cruel thing to do to a child who loves you and needs her family just as much as the new child in the family.

Then I'd end it by saying that this level of behaviour is so shocking, and so out of character that you are concerned about her mental health and that pregnancy can sometimes cause problems like that, not to be embarrassed about getting help if she needs it.

It is extreme to really truly believe that a lovely normal child will hurt the baby just by her presence in the house, and if that's coming from a place of anxiety and paranoia rather than a justification for jealous & selfish actions, then perhaps she should see her gp / midwife about it?

And yet on MN people actively advocate no visitors including mothers and MIL's for the first few weeks and nobody bats an eyelid at that.
No one advocates excluding older siblings.

She's a selfish, infantile bitch

OP did your friend's husband leave his ex to be with her?

She's a selfish, infantile bitch

I was typing a long post but I've deleted it because the above sums it up better.

So if we want to go the MH route, perhaps the MN stance needs to change for the no visitors for first few weeks as well? Since in RL this generally isn't the norm either.

Only if the person thinks that the visitors are actively trying to harm their child which is what the OP's friend thinks the 6 year old is going to do.

Can people not see that this is not normal? To have a good relationship with this child and then start thinking that she's going to try and hurt the baby? It's a totally irrational thought and I'd be worried about this if it were my friend.

FTR I've worked in perinatal mental health and this would be a red flag to me.

Yes, perhaps the OP's friend is just a toxic bitch who has waited for this opportunity to freeze out DSD. There's also a chance she is suffering pre natal depression/heading towards psychosis. If she were my friend I'd make sure it was the former, not the latter before walking away from this situation.

So many posters are outraged yet I see this sort of shit all the time. Fathers abandoning their first families and seemingly lacking in any sense of responsibility for them, new partners pushing away stepchildren. You hope they'll get it when they become parents but they don't. People are arseholes and there are a lot of children out there with broken hearts.

There is also a ridiculous amount of people walking round with completely undiagnosed and unsupported MH issues. You mark my words, this one will end in (near) tragedy.
Read up on Charlotte Bevan.

Pregnancy can do funny things to your mental state. If she is making such irrational decisions that are out of character then I would suggest she needs to speak to her mw about getting some help.
Towards the end of my pregnancy I became really antisocial and only wanted my dh or dm around, I think it can be part of nesting. HOWEVER I still knew how to behave appropriately and wouldn't ban a family member from my house, especially a 6yo!

Sorry, can you all please lay off this woman a bit. Its kind of obvious she has some sort of ante natal depression cause she is so anxious and needs outside help. Hence, why she is being so irrationally anxious and that is why what she is planning seems so awful. Please as her friend, try and talk to her partner and try to get some outside help for her. Know this seems underhand and difficult but really would be the best thing you could do right now. He must be pretty bewildered by the whole thing ang gutted on behalf of himself and his daughter to say the least.

This has actually brought tears to my eyes, how could anyone do that? My DH and I are adopting, and I have a DSD about the same age as your friends DSD. Our plan for introductions and the first few weeks at home are to 'cocoon' with my DSD there! This is exactly what her mum wants as well - she has told us that as much as she will miss her, she would really like DSD to be with us as much as possible in those first few weeks so we get used to being a family of four, because that is what we are.

Your friend is completely isolating a helpless child. It is not fair. I agree with PP's who have suggested that it sounds like your friend wants to pretend this is his first child, but is isn't and she knew that before she pro-created with him. She needs to put her DSDs feelings far above her own.

No, I'm not going to lay off her., she's being fucking cruel.

I would and have distanced myself away from someone like this!