I do everything you do and work...

[Chocolatecookiesandmilk]

Aibu to think this line is ridiculous. I hear/read it a lot in regards to sahms. It just doesn't make sense to me, life isn't either you work or you don't, there are so many other factors - the amount of kids you have, how much your partner works, if you even have partner, your mental or physical health, the amount of support you receive, if you have someone to help with childcare, if you are a carer on top, if you volunteer etc etc........

I have no help. No family in this country, no friends, no option of paid childcare outside the restricted nursery hours the state allocate to us. Dh and I work demanding jobs, and we are shattered.

I think having a support structure in place either you're working or stay at home helps enormously. For me the hardest thing is just never having any time off- I never get a break. DH and I manage to give each other a lie in most weekends and that's as far as it goes. I see people on fb sending the kids off to granny for the afternoon and ill admit I wish I had that.

I dont think sahm or wohm is the biggest determiner of how hard a slog it is. That depends more on your childcare, your family support, your outsourced jobs etc etc. A sahm with kids in school and family keen to look after them weekly is going to have plenty of free time. A sahm with younger kids and no help is going to find they have virtually no free time.

I completely agree Chocolate.

Sometimes it's complete luck of the draw if you have it easier or more difficult than others (children with SEN, marriage break ups, etc). Other times it is because of choices you make (career choices, choosing to move away from family so not having a support network).

But, at the end of the day, we have to not only survive financially and emotionally, but actually try find some joy in it all.

Some people get their joy from working, some from playing with their children.

Regardless, some things have to be juggled, some things have to be given up. Noone can have everything.

Would it kill people to have some compassion and understanding? Is a SAHM not allowed to be tired because she's not working? Is a WOHM not permitted to miss her children because she chose to work? If someone chooses to make all their meals from scratch, and chooses elaborate meals that take a long time, are they not permitted to be tired at the end of it, just because others don't get the time to even try to do that and survive on insta meals?

I agree Antidae

I also think the nature of the job makes a huge difference. There are people who love their job, love the people, aren't hugely stressed by it and have no problems getting out to do nursery pickup.

There are others who have more stressful, more unpredictable jobs where managing workloads is an issue, clients are demanding, work often has to be taken home and being able to leave at a certain hour isn't necessarily possible. If both parents have these kinds of jobs, it makes the juggling act much more difficult to maintain. I've seen a lot of women in this situation become SAHMs, because it just isn't possible to keep this afloat and maintain the family's sanity.

I was never bored in 25 years as a sahm, there was always something I wanted to do. But I didn't see it as housework and kids tbh.
For me the attraction was freedom from routine and organising or not organising my time.
Apart from the school run there was nothing routine and then I'd change that/ have different options for walking back and to.
I have heard sahp's say they are bored but those are the ones who are looking forward to starting work again, not those content as sahp.

Yes, support, even the option of it would be comforting, also your general expectations and resilience as a parent/person. I found dc1 far harder because I didn't know what to expect. The support factor eases though - once they're 3 and up, 5 and up and older it gets easier to put the tv on and rest if you're ill or need a break.

Sorry my post was badly worded, I meant standard chores like laundry etc by 'essential jobs'.

Some people don't have a choice.

Some people have a choice and it's horses for courses. I don't think it's ever helpful to comment to someone else about their setup/choices in RL without being asked to.

I've done both and staying at home even whilst looking after pre school Dc did feel more relaxed and there was more flexibility about how to fit in the chores that pretty much everyone has to do. Felt like I had much more breathing space. But I felt guilty for not being on top of everything despite having time to be (my issue - not saying anyone else should!). I now enjoy the social aspect of my current job (3 days pw) and feel less guilty for not being organised at home! (But occasionally wish I could be at home more so I could be more organised but then remember that I wasn't before and so it goes on....)

Being at home/working part time was brilliant - I had lots of free time. I'm much busier now I work full time - but also much wealthier. So it's all about choices and priorities innit?

My MIL is the only woman I know who never worked once she had children, and she feels exhausted and overworked if she has to post a letter AND go to the hairdresser on the same day 'I'm trying to fit in too much'

My job is the latter laurie - dh enjoys his more, but I don't find any joy in mine (it's well paid, that's about it.)

I think it's not really about being a sahm or a wohm- it's the whole set up of your life that determines how much time you have and how much stress you experience. A sahm with no support and demanding kids is going to more stressed than someone with loads of family support who loves their job.

We all do what we think is optimal for our families within the financial and logistical bounds we have. I reckon we could just manage on dhs income but it'd be very tight and that's a whole other set of stresses, plus the system where we live isn't set up for sahp s at all. We just do what we can with what we have.

I'm sure there are outliers - someone on this thread who works and earns well around having kids at home, but that's not the norm.

No one has ever asked my husband if he feels guilty for going to work and leaving our son all day. Only women are held to these ridiculous standards. As usual, whatever we do is wrong. So fuck it, its not a slanging match I'm entering into- I dont think sahp or wohp is inherently superior. It's just another faux debate to bash women, like breast v bottle. Bugger it, not biting ;)

I've seen a lot of women in this situation become SAHMs, because it just isn't possible to keep this afloat and maintain the family's sanity.

And this i see too - two partners both with demanding jobs - it's really hard to keep that on the road. Something has to break. We are in this situation right now - one of us is going to have to compromise. I suspect in he next few years dh is going to be offered a posting that will mean I'll be a trailing spouse. We will need to think very carefully about what to do.

Anatidae it could be a golden opportunity.

Yes it could caileach (remind me what you do again...?)

I'm toying with the idea of a change. I'd like to go into something a bit more creative (I'm a scientist by trade but I'd rather write, or make.) That wouldn't be an option just now, but in a couple of years it'd be my consolation if Dh did haul me off to the wilderness to be a trailing spouse. I realise it's not an easy option nor is it an option that's guaranteed any success. Once the Offspring are a little larger I plan to ramp up my sidelines and moonlighting somewhat and see what comes of it.

Right now I'm lucky to work from home, so demanding as my job is (she says, pissing around on MN while her projections run in the background) I at least have a degree of control and no commute. I find it suits me.

I'm always puzzled by the suggestion that work is "time to yourself"/"me time"! Seriously?

I think women who have the choice of being a SAHM are incredibly fortunate. I have looked at the figures, even taking childcare and travel costs out of the loop - we would be £800-900 short if I stopped working.

My dh and me both work ft and have long commutes. We squeeze in our dc extra curriculum activities at the weekends as well as homework etc. They are limited as We only have one day in which they can go - a Saturday. We are always tired. I often feel guilty that I am not home for 12 hours a day, five days a week.

£800-900 short per month

I'm always puzzled by the suggestion that work is "time to yourself"/"me time"! Seriously?

Doesn't that clearly depend on what you do? You can't be that puzzled surely, some jobs are much easier than being at home with little kids, some are not. Some you get lots of lovely peace and quiet and alone time, some you don't.

open we're similar in terms of what we'd be short if I didn't work FT - but a lot of SAHP are people for whom they couldn't clear that much extra per month if they worked, so not especially fortunate in that respect.

I think women who have the choice of being a SAHM are incredibly fortunate. I have looked at the figures, even taking childcare and travel costs out of the loop - we would be £800-900 short if I stopped working

And some people are the opposite and it would cost them more to work, and would say that you are incredibly fortunate to have the choice to work.

IT's all a matter of perspective.

I'm always puzzled by the suggestion that work is "time to yourself"/"me time"!

You see that all the time here - lots of posters seem to regard work as basically relaxation time, the same as a hobby.

I'd say that whatever you do for a job it's not your time. Even if you love it you are at the beck and call of your boss/clients/customers/patients/whatever. If I sign up for an adult ed group to sew for a hobby I can just not go if I can't be arsed. If I'm a professional sewing costumes for a multimillion pound production there would be a problem if I decided not to bother today. That for me is why work can never be "me time", it's not relaxing when you have someone else's demands snapping at your heels, even if you don't actually mind fulfilling them. When you're not at work you have more freedom and flexibility (in general, I know there are carers etc who don't) to plan your time and do what you want to do. So for me, being at home is easier. Others may differ, we all have different perspectives, needs etc.

I agree with gilly

I dont get bored, there is always something i can do

Anatidae I am a scientist by trade too.
Working in research was very incompatible with being a parent.

Long unpredictable hours, by its very nature things don't go to plan, project scan't be stopped while underway to attend to a school pick up, lots of evening and weekend work.
I became a SAHM.
Money was tight, but we managed. as the kids grew I started to look at ways to earn money while still prioritising time with my children.
I have tried various things over the years, and while all have been successful, I spend 90% of my time on one particular revenue stream. ( I have another on the back burner as reserve!!)
I dipped my toe into writing for a couple of years recently: I found a lot of work locally working with our Enterprise office, loads of small companies need copy for leaflets and web sites. Finding work was easy and pay good, but I didn't enjoy it too much. I could certainly have made a full time living from that one.
So I now make and sell craft items.
A very unusual niche market, I supply several shops world wide and orders are literally flooding in. I make twice what I would be making in my scientific career.

If I had not taken that leap of faith and jacked in my career I would not be in the great situation I am in now.
There are so many opportunities for self employment and being a SAHM is a fantastic way to dip the toe in the water while you have time and no financial responsibilities.

DrCoco that's interesting.

I always found the constraints of school and extra curricular activities far less flexible than work. But then I am a freelancer.

The last several years of high stakes exams have ruled all our lives.

It is more peaceful at work in some ways, but in the back of my mind I always have the thought that someone could die if I make a mistake.

I think that is hard for mums, especially ones with lots of kids as you have to think about so much at one time. Its annoying at home though, as some days menial tasks can take ages as the kids are trailing along. I find that so frustrating internally!

Doesn't that clearly depend on what you do? You can't be that puzzled surely, some jobs are much easier than being at home with little kids, some are not. Some you get lots of lovely peace and quiet and alone time, some you don't.

Please tell me which jobs you're thinking of that provide lots of lovely peace and quiet and alone time because I genuinely can't think of any. Certainly not mine, although I'm sure there are a great many people who might think it would (the clue to my profession is in my username).

Anyway, as is often said on here, most SAHPs consider that role to be equivalent to a job, so it's obviously very puzzling as to why any of them would then think that a paid job is some sort of 'me time'.

Not many actual professions or career type jobs have lots of quiet and alone time. You probably get it if you work in a bookshop or something