Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To have told DP I won't move for his job unless we're engaged/ married?

240 replies

KeepCalmAndTrotOn · 09/09/2017 22:02

We're both early 30's, been together 4 years, he may be facing redundancy early next year and has been looking around for other, similar roles.

In the last 2 weeks he's notified me of two roles that he's interested in, one the other side of the country and one in a different country. Both times he's started talking about what we'd do if/ when we moved if he got the roles etc.

In all honesty, both times I haven't exactly been thrilled or keen on the idea of moving to either place, especially as all of my family, friends and business are where we are currently.

He saw another role today and tonight over dinner said 'Would you be up for moving to XXX place?' I piped up and said 'Not really, not unless we were married, or at the v least engaged. I'd have to give up my business (we'll move it, which is essentially the same thing in my line of work) my friends, my family etc. I don't know if I'd want to do that for someone who won't commit to me long term'

He got arsey and the conversation ended (we were out in a restaurant and he said he 'didn't want to do this here' )

WIBU? AIBU?!

OP posts:
Italiangreyhound · 10/09/2017 10:11

YADNBU.

I agree with ITCouldBeWorse "Id take that as a big red flag that he expects more than he is prepared to give. Id be wary of an engagement too. At the end of the day that's a piece of jewellery and a possible future appointment."

If you see marriage and babies/a baby in your future I'd personally be looking at that before (long before actually) I;d even consider giving up close contact with family/friends etc and your business.

If you both do not want marriage fine but it sounds like you do.

Italiangreyhound · 10/09/2017 10:11

I haven't read the whole thread but wish you well.

TempusEejit · 10/09/2017 10:16

YANBU.

A couple of years ago I (only) looked at two rental properties, both of which said "no pets" but when the agents met/chatted with me both of them were happy to accommodate my 3 dogs. I did indeed move into one of those properties with my dogs. So don't rule anything out, I just think the agents want the discretion to be able to refuse pets without having to justify their decision.

Pearlsaringer · 10/09/2017 10:20

YANBU. However (trying to be nice here) maybe he is a romantic at heart and wants to propose in his own way. You need a gentle but honest conversation with him explaining how his reticence is making you feel. Four years is plenty of time to work out whether he sees you as his life partner. If he still hedges, sorry but bail.

JennyHolzersGhost · 10/09/2017 10:22

Tell him how you feel OP. Sit him down and be direct. His response will tell you everything you need to know about the future of your relationship.

As for living arrangements and dogs, anything is possible so don't let the practicalities cause you to waste more time on someone who doesn't intend to commit to you. Do you have a friend or parents you could move in with temporarily while you sort your head out?

ChasedByBees · 10/09/2017 10:34

I don't think he was bewildered when you walked off, he doesn't sound stupid. You have told him what you want repeatedly and he ignores it in a way which means the boat isn't rocked.

If he adores you then you would be better to end things with him while he adores you. He will appreciate what he stands to lose and that may give him the impetus to change. If not then you will have left and have a chance of getting what you want without hanging on for someone who will keep you dangling.

LittleOwl153 · 10/09/2017 10:34

The thing that shouts out to me from your posts OP is that he didn't want to commit to you whilst your business start-up had debts. BUT he is expecting you you walk away from that business, potentially before you have cleared these debts, and start again. Presumably taking on similar debts again to do so, potentially more as you are outside your known area. You then say he is a high earner, so presumably could support this debt if he wished AND HASN'T. If You are not married or do not share finances then you are likely to be left at home struggling with debt trying to establish a business, potentially with small kids in tow, whilst he is out living the life with his new colleges. I would not move without either a similar job prospect for yourself or an unbreakable commitment on his part which I do not think you are going to get.

Gemini69 · 10/09/2017 10:35

KeepCalmAndTrotOn

I am heart sorry for you Lady.... but I agree with the others.. you have reached a crossroads in your life and must choose your own path now Flowers

BewareOfDragons · 10/09/2017 10:41

Frankly, I'd ask him to find someplace else to stay for a while. Tell him you have some thinking to do about your relationship, because you clearly aren't on the same page. He wants security for himself, but he doesn't appear to give two hoots about your own security. That's not love. That's selfishness, wanting his cake an eating it, too, and you may or may not get some.

Woohoo. What a guy. I'd tell him you're not sure that you want him anymore, because you deserve someone who loves you and wants the best fo ryou as much as he loves and wants the best for himself.

ChocoholicsAnonymous · 10/09/2017 10:42

I really feel for you OP. We are here for you. Good Luck.

FetchezLaVache · 10/09/2017 11:17

I am sorry to be blunt, but I think pringlecat and others are quite right - this chap will never be ready for marriage with you. I had one like him, my sweetheart from uni, who also outwardly adored me, but also had lots of cogent reasons not to get married and have kids. Needless to say, he met and moved in with his now wife and mother of his children within six months of my leaving him...

This relationship is probably exactly right for you right now, with the lifestyle you have at this moment in time, but it's not going to evolve with the next stages of your life or withstand any serious turbulence. Could it be that at some subconscious level, you're deliberately placing a condition on the move that you know he'll never agree to, so as to bring things to a head?

Original poster
KeepCalmAndTrotOn · 10/09/2017 11:18

I don't even think I can have another face to face convo about it tbh. It always just descends in an arguemeng as I get shrieky and het up and he gets frustrated and somehow ends up shutting me down.

I think I just want to write him a letter (or print off this thread and leave it for him )

I feel like it's the only way to state how I truly feel and to get all my points across in a calm and civilised way.

OP posts:
Llareggub · 10/09/2017 11:20

Do you actually want to move? I wouldn't move for a man again, it cost me so much financially and emotionally I wouldn't entertain it again.

Sparkletastic · 10/09/2017 11:33

It might just be time to cut your losses OP. Deeds not words count and he's not committing. You sound lovely by the way. I don't think you'd be lonely for long if you took the brave decision to end it.

expatinscotland · 10/09/2017 11:35

' It's another 6 weeks yet until they announce who is going at his work, it's going to be a long 6 weeks. It's also going to be a long few months until my birthday. I need to start my exit plan, I've just got so much going on at the moment, I'm exhausted and the thought of having to pack up my life from him and leave (and leave my dogs too as I would have to go into rental) is just terrifying and heart breaking sad'

Stop living your life for him and start living it for you. I'll tell you what's more heart-breaking, friends of mine (again, I'm 46 and divorced my ex h at 30 after 8 years of marriage due to his not wanting children, he was a few years older) who are my age and went along with relationships like this during their 30s. The guy always broke up with them at or near 40 and went on to marry someone younger (usually within a year) and then have children. None of these women (three of them) were able to have children and now it's too late. This is what your future is if you waste your time with this guy.

That's the thought that kept me going during my divorce, that if I didn't do it now, I may never have kids. I worked it out and I could live with it if I tried and it didn't work out for one reason or another, but I had to at least try.

Yes, it was awful, splitting up, lawyers, divorce, selling our house together, moving into a place on my own, etc. but you know, the whole time, I just knew I was making the right move because I was being true to myself.

Start detaching. You've had as many conversations as there will be because he shuts you down and gaslights you. And stop thinking about his work, his life, him this and that and start thinking about the next 6 weeks in terms of you and what you want and need.

There's nothing wrong with never wanting to get married, be a couple or have children (again, I have 4 good friends from high school who have never done either by choice and are perfectly happy, still more who never married but had children, again, all good). But there's nothing wrong with wanting that, either.

You are incompatible and that's all there is to it.

JennyHolzersGhost · 10/09/2017 11:35

A letter is a very good way to communicate when conversations get fraught. That sounds like a good idea.

llangennith · 10/09/2017 11:36

YANBU. You don't want to move away from your friends and your life and he doesn't want to marry you.
I hope you move on and meet someone who deserves you and really wants to spend his life with you and marry you. Flowers

valeinoyikbuno · 10/09/2017 11:43

Honestly I just don't think that this is the man you are going to spend the rest of your life with, and if that is so then you are better off ending it now and finding someone who really does want to be with you for ever through thick and thin.

Marriage doesn't happen because of a ceremony and ring. Two people marry one another gradually as each realises that the other person's happiness and wellbeing is more important to them than their own, and they know they need not fear for their own wellbeing because their beloved puts them first just as they put their beloved first. The marriage ceremony is a public acknowledgement and celebration that this bond has been formed.

You can't make this bond form with an ultimatum that you can't sacrifice XYZ for him without marriage.

I agree with you 100% that you shouldn't sacrifice your thriving business, friends and family for hs sake when he's not that committed to you. However, that's a reason to split up, not a reason to get married. If after 4 years you aren't at the point where marriage is seeming like obviously the thing you are both wanting because you basically feel married already - then maybe it's time to call it quits.

onalongsabbatical · 10/09/2017 11:51

Marriage doesn't happen because of a ceremony and ring. Two people marry one another gradually as each realises that the other person's happiness and wellbeing is more important to them than their own, and they know they need not fear for their own wellbeing because their beloved puts them first just as they put their beloved first. The marriage ceremony is a public acknowledgement and celebration that this bond has been formed.
Wow. I'm seriously impressed with that as a description/definition of what marriage should, ideally be. Makes me wonder what percentage of marriages get close to that, though. But kudos for putting that into words.

eddielizzard · 10/09/2017 11:51

i second, loudly, everything expat said.

FeralBeryl · 10/09/2017 12:04

Expat as usual has it.

OP I've watched this happen time and time again with friends, colleagues and nearly myself.
I'm currently watching my vile BIL do the same to his third doting girlfriend. Complete stringing until they reach the age of about 35 then off he pops. These women have left their home country, strict religion etc for him.

I hate it - I always liken it to the nursery rhyme Soldier Soldier - the woman spends verses and verses running around getting shit for him so he 'can' marry her then at the end he fucks off anyway.

From the limited info, he doesn't seem to have much respect for your circumstances as well as your emotions.
I've built up a business and it's so hard! The idea of starting from scratch elsewhere (with no friend/family support) is a non starter.
Oh and I'd also expect him to help out with your debt if he sees you as one unit too. He doesn't.
Please go and find someone who will Flowers

MissEliza · 10/09/2017 12:04

YADNBU. When my db was relocating due to a job move, he asked his gf of three years to come with him. She was leaving the town she grew up in, her parents, friends and job. He proposed to her because he felt she deserved that commitment from him. Maybe that's not very romantic but it was the right thing to do. He wasn't ready for marriage there and then (they married five years later) but he wanted her to be reassured that that's what he wanted in the future. You don't deserve anything less from your bf.

IfNot · 10/09/2017 12:05

you shouldn't sacrifice your thriving business, friends and family for hs sake when he's not that committed to you. However, that's a reason to split up, not a reason to get married.

Absolutely.
You sound like you have your life pretty sorted. So why is he looking at jobs miles away? You are the one with real roots, he may be made redundant. .but hasn't yet...so why isn't he seeing your stability as a base and looking for opportunities closer to home?
It's so presumptuous that his career comes first! I round be seriously doubting if I wanted to be with a man who made this assumption.
After all, this job of his is currently imaginary. He doesn't have to move, does he?
Also, if he is such a high earner, why hasn't he helped with your debts? My DP of only 2 years recently helped me get a business started. When it's more profitable I'm going to pitch in with his business. We see our lives as a shared enterprise. In a committed relationship, one or the other half of the couple might get precedence sometimes, but it should balance out, if the relationship is equal.
The fact that he can't even properly talk about the marriage thing is a huge red flag.
I too have known many men who paddle along for years with one woman, stalling and stalling, only to up and marry a new woman with indecent haste.
You know when it's right because it's easy and you are both excited about the same things. Sorry love, but be brave now and you will never regret it.

JemmyBloocher · 10/09/2017 12:08

YANBU. Engagement however means nothing, only marriage does. A person can have numerous engagements and break them. Gone are the Jane Austen days when you can legally rely on them in any way

You need to have a good think and a possibly heavy conversation about both your long-term goals.

Londoncheapo · 10/09/2017 12:11

Ultimatums never work

They may not work in the sense of getting you what you want, but they do have a way of at least letting you know where you stand.

No-one can "force" this guy to marry the OP, or anyone. This is about the OP trying to find out what the real situation is and where she stands.

Occasionally, you do hear of guys who put off marriage because they can't separate it from the idea of a wedding, and the thought of planning a wedding has them freaked out. These guys are quite happy to make the commitment as soon as this is clarified, and if they know that there is the option of a registry office wedding now and perhaps a wedding later on, even in several years time, or perhaps never. No problem.

However:

When a guy makes vague comments about not believing in marriage or whatever, 90% of the time it means "I'm not really that into you, and am keeping my options open in case something tastier comes along."

A LOT of these relationships break up a few years down the line. Actually, most of them.

When this happens, the woman is often left a lot worse off as a result.

She may have had children and put her career on the back burner in order to take on most of the domestic duties and childcare, in effect impoverishing herself to further her boyfriend's career, and ending up with next to no savings, assets or pension when the relationship ends (there is NO SUCH THING as a "common law spouse" in British law).

Alternatively, she may delay and delay childrearing, only to find that by the time the relationship ends, it is now too late to think about having children with someone else.

The guy, meanwhile, typically comes out of the situation quite nicely off, having forged ahead with his career while girlfriend-pretending-to-be-a-wife has spent the last 5 or 10 years washing his socks and managing the home front. Typically, within a year or so (despite having spent the past several years whining on about how marriage is an outdated institution or he can't get married because his parents got divorced and he is suffering from childhood trauma etc. etc.) he will be married, to someone elseoften someone a lot younger than the previous girlfriendand have kids with her. As we all know, men's fertility doesn't clock off in their early 40s like ours generally does.

OP, I am very far from being the kind of person who yells LEAVE THE BASTARD at the slightest provocation, and I have to say that your situation sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.