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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think you dont put a rapist in a woman's prison?

319 replies

bambambini · 06/09/2017 12:57

Do women really not count here, has all common sense been ababdoned? How is this even possible?

www.cetusnews.com/news/Transgender-rapist-lag-‘put-in-segregation’-over-‘sexual-advances-to-female-prisoners-.BkeCnqnht-.html

OP posts:
GahBuggerit · 06/09/2017 13:54

"It's not ideal at all putting a rapist in a woman's prison, but there are so many sad stories of genuine victims who have been put in male prisons and raped when they would have been safer in a women's prison."

So remove a Male from a Male prison because they'd be safer in a women's prison?

As long as they are safe eh? Hmm

I don't think your use of the word Ideal is very appropriate btw. The words you were looking for are "Its fucking shocking to put a RAPIST in a womans prison".

Awwlookatmybabyspider · 06/09/2017 13:54

YANBU. Also Penis Still intact. It should have been burned off in acid. The dirty despicable beast.

Whether or not he's transgender. He was male when he committed these abhorrent acts.

Can he not handle him self around big burly blokes

Lovingmybear2 · 06/09/2017 13:55

morphene

No petal it's women's sports women's changing rooms and toilets.

It's not just prisons and yes actually we do care about women in prison on mumsnet. You know we are strange that way Hmm

LadyinCement · 06/09/2017 13:55

And as for the £10K sex change operation. Which left the patient rather short-changed, as well, or extra-changed if you like... Prisoners have a right to healthcare, but no one died from not having a sex change so that is £10K that could have been saved off the NHS budget straightaway.

Lovingmybear2 · 06/09/2017 13:57

Omg so now because a man has been raped who previously raped a woman he should be put in a women's prison to keep him safe!!!

Un fucking believable

SoPassRemarkable · 06/09/2017 14:05

This will happen more and more when this new self identification bill goes through. Any bloke who is jailed and doesn't fancy a tough, male prison will say he's a woman and legally will be considered so and will have to be put in a woman's prison. No need for any medical or counselling input.

Notevilstepmother · 06/09/2017 14:08

I'm talking about different people.

I don't think it was a good idea to put a rapist in a woman's prison.

I don't think that this means all trans or intersex women should be treated the same way.

Some of you seem to have the "all men are rapists" mentality. I don't subscribe to that either.

I think that trans women who are not sex offender should be considered for women's prisons if they are clearly living as women.

I don't think a blanket rule is appropriate because there are some people like in this case who are a danger and should not be in a women's prison. Where trans women are vulnerable rather than dangerous then I do think they should be in a woman's prison. I think it should be decided on a case by case basis. There was a trans woman moved to a woman's prison because she was being sexually harassed by the men in the male prison. I think that was the right thing to do.

By the way I'm not insane, my mother had me tested Grin

SoPassRemarkable · 06/09/2017 14:08

If men are getting raped in male prisons then that's totally wrong and it needs sorting out.....within that male prison! Not by putting them in a female prison.

I do believe that there is a big failing within the prison service to give a shit about the rights of any prisoner on a day to day basis. A blind eye is turned to violence, drugs, rape. Half the prison officers are selling drugs and mars bars and phones to inmates according to a prison officer I know.

It needs a serious sort out.

Notevilstepmother · 06/09/2017 14:10

This is the woman I was referring to.

www.theguardian.com/society/2015/oct/30/transgender-woman-moved-from-mens-to-womens-prison

SoPassRemarkable · 06/09/2017 14:11

Penis = men's prison.
No penis = women's prison.

Very simple.

I have no problem myself with people with a penis in a female changing room, etc because I can vote with my feet if I want and leave. If I feel unsafe I can shout and generally people will listen/help. Not fair on prisoners who can't leave if they feel unsafe.

Notevilstepmother · 06/09/2017 14:11

So how do you suggest the prison officers deal with "men" being forced to show their breasts, or having their breast touched?

YellowLawn · 06/09/2017 14:14

I think that trans women who are not sex offender should be considered for women's prisons if they are clearly living as women

what does 'clearly living as woman' mean?
I don't wear dresses/skirts. seldom make up. have a 'tache if I don't shave I like cars and football. I am ace at diy. a high rate tax payer.
am I not living as a woman then?

hannah1992 · 06/09/2017 14:14

I'm confused it says "had a £10000 sex change in prison" then goes on to say he still has a penis? So then he hasn't had a sex change 🤔. So the surely she is still a he body wise (not saying she doesn't want to identify as a woman before anyone jumps on me? But surely you can't be labelled a woman if you have a willy?

BigDeskBob · 06/09/2017 14:15

"Notevilstepmother* why are you derailing the thread? Do you think a man who is serving a life sentence for raping two young girls should be in a female prison?

Alltheprettyseahorses · 06/09/2017 14:15

YANBU, OP - it's fucking disgraceful. Who the actual fuck could possibly be so stupid as to send a rapist to a women's prison? Actually, who the fuck could be stupid enough to send a man into a women's prison at all?

As for the 'it's not ideal' shit - WTF?

SoPassRemarkable · 06/09/2017 14:15

To be honest any single one of us who drives could be in prison before you blink. You only need to make one stupid mistake driving and kill someone, be found guilty of causing death by dangerous driving and you could be in prison.

So yes, we should all be worried about ourselves, oour daughters. But yes, I do worry about vunerable strangers I don't know as well.

Alltheprettyseahorses · 06/09/2017 14:17

So how do you suggest the prison officers deal with "men" being forced to show their breasts, or having their breast touched?

Perhaps not by expecting women to suffer the consequences of it? Punish the scum touching someone up, not random women.

StormTreader · 06/09/2017 14:26

"Putting anyone in prison in such a way that they are likely to offend while still in prison is ridiculous. It shouldn't happen whether it is gay rapists put in an open male prison, lesbian sex offenders in a female prisons, or transgender rapists put in the prison of the sex they committed rape against."

Morphene I think you are making very valid points, I dont understand why people have been giving you such a hard time over them, and I dont understand what part of the above are people saying is "stupid" or "disingenuous".

Huskylover1 · 06/09/2017 14:26

That "woman" called Tara, should not have been in a female prison either. She as several convictions for violence. The latest time, she actually came off best in a fight with a male. If she attacks a woman, she will most likely beat her to a pulp. I would have left her to stew in the male prison, tbh. And as for the comment by her barrister, saying that she's had a terrible time in prison - I don't give a shiny shit. She knocked a guys teeth out because he wouldn't serve her a drink. I couldn't care less if she ate slop and stewed in her own filth for her entire 12 week sentence.

Regards the original male prisoner in question - he still has a penis, so WTF have we spent £10k on? A very, very expensive boob job? Good luck to any of you law abiding women, who fancy a boob job on the NHS. The answer would be No. Aargh, makes my blood boil. He should have been left in the male prison, and if he got raped, I'd say that's a bit of brilliant karma.

Notevilstepmother · 06/09/2017 14:27

I'm not derailing the thread. I don't think this particular individual should have been in a woman's prison. However, s/he is and the situation appears to have been dealt with accordingly as he is now in solitary.

I also don't think that this means that all trans women should be in men's prison.

As I said, I don't always assume what I read in the Daily Mail is true either. They have been known to try to whip up feeling because it sells newspapers.

That's my view. I've noticed that on all the trans bashing threads on mumsnet it's not popular to have any kind of view that doesn't agree with the hysteria. There are plenty of people who would take a more balanced view that won't post on here because they know it is pointless. I've already been called insane. When people resort to name calling I usually assume their arguments aren't up to the job.

OldPony · 06/09/2017 14:28

Those men chose to have breasts (if they can be called that), I didn't and don't want men in my private space.

VestalVirgin · 06/09/2017 14:33

Penis = men's prison.
No penis = women's prison.

Very simple.

But wrong. The definition of "women" is not "men without penis" (except in this insane new world it is, but you know, among people with common sense)

Defining women as people who lack a penis is inherently misogynist, and therefore, we should take care to NEVER do it. Never.

A man without penis is still physically stronger than most women, and if he is a rapist, then he may not be able to rape anymore (because in the UK rape is defined as requiring a penis) but he can still sexually assault.

They can keep those males in the prison for males, because that is what it is there for, males, or they can give those males who chose to have their penis surgically removed a separate part of the prison for males.

There is no reason whatsoever why a male person should be in a women's prison.

bambambini · 06/09/2017 14:34

"This will happen more and more when this new self identification bill goes through. Any bloke who is jailed and doesn't fancy a tough, male prison will say he's a woman and legally will be considered so and will have to be put in a woman's prison. No need for any medical or counselling input."

It was reported that there are 11 transgender sex offenders going though transition in Littlehey prison. If you accept that TW are women then they should be transferred to female prisons.

The Times printed this article on the issue.

*A SHARP increase in the number of male prison inmates living as women has prompted a government review amid concern that some could be fooling officials to obtain privileges.

Up to 100 transgender prisoners now have the right to ask to wear women’s clothing, to use private washing facilities and to be searched only by female prison officers despite not being diagnosed with gender dysphoria, the medical term for those whose biological sex does not match the gender they feel themselves to be.

The increase has caused disciplinary and management problems for prison governors and staff, many linked to what is described as inappropriate behaviour ranging from aggression to oversexualised conduct.

Police are investigating an alleged sexual assault on a transgender inmate at Littlehey prison, Huntingdon, while Full Sutton prison, near York, was last year criticised by the prisons and probation ombudsman following the suicide of a transgender inmate.

The increase in the number of male prisoners wanting to live as women follows the introduction of the care and management of transsexual prisoners policy in 2011.

A SHARP increase in the number of male prison inmates living as women has prompted a government review amid concern that some could be fooling officials to obtain privileges.

Up to 100 transgender prisoners now have the right to ask to wear women’s clothing, to use private washing facilities and to be searched only by female prison officers despite not being diagnosed with gender dysphoria, the medical term for those whose biological sex does not match the gender they feel themselves to be.

The increase has caused disciplinary and management problems for prison governors and staff, many linked to what is described as inappropriate behaviour ranging from aggression to oversexualised conduct.

Police are investigating an alleged sexual assault on a transgender inmate at Littlehey prison, Huntingdon, while Full Sutton prison, near York, was last year criticised by the prisons and probation ombudsman following the suicide of a transgender inmate.

The increase in the number of male prisoners wanting to live as women follows the introduction of the care and management of transsexual prisoners policy in 2011.

It was intended to help staff deal with genuine cases of gender dysphoria, but critics say it is flawed because it allows prisoners to declare themselves as transgender without medical diagnosis and pressurises prison authorities to grant private washing and laundry facilities, widely seen as privileges. There is also a perception that transgender inmates have a better chance of being granted parole.

Craig Hudson, who is serving a life sentence for the murder of his wife, last year secured taxpayer funding for a High Court case in which he demanded the right to wear a woman’s wig in Frankland prison in Durham.

Hudson, who now calls himself Kimberley Green, complained that he was not given hormone treatment, prosthetic devices, hair removal products or separate gym changing facilities. Hudson lost the case when the judge ruled that wigs could be used to aid escapes but the legal bill was reportedly up to £40,000.

Glyn Travis, of the POA, formerly the Prison Officers’ Association, said: “The numbers have increased since this policy [was introduced] because, although some are genuinely gender dysphoric, others are looking at it as a soft option for prison life, as a way to improve their chances of getting released or for personal reasons.”

HM Prison Service said the figure of 100 transgender inmates was an estimate because specific data was not kept. “There are strict rules governing the management of transgender prisoners,” it said. “However, the policy is now under review.”

Nick de Bois, a Conservative member of the justice select committee who has raised concerns about the issue, said: “Self-certification is at risk of abuse . . . The review is welcome but how can they do that without the basic figures? They should act speedily to rectify that."*

OP posts:
VestalVirgin · 06/09/2017 14:36

Regards the original male prisoner in question - he still has a penis, so WTF have we spent £10k on? A very, very expensive boob job? Good luck to any of you law abiding women, who fancy a boob job on the NHS. The answer would be No.

I guess he also got his face feminized. You know, cosmetic surgery. The likes of which the NHS would never pay for women who'd like to look a bit more feminine, or have their facial hair permanently removed.

When this self-identification nonsense has gone through, though, a woman could theoretically have all her papers changed to male, then apply to a genderclinic for a boob job and cosmetic surgery, then change legal gender back to female.
I wonder whether that's possible, and how many women will do it.

DeleteOrDecay · 06/09/2017 14:56

The world has gone mad entertaining this kind of shite.

Totally and utterly agree. It's fucking bizarre that a person can literally wake up one day, decide to become the opposite sex and everyone just falls over themselves to accommodate it at the expense of others.

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