To think you dont put a rapist in a woman's prison?

[bambambini]

Do women really not count here, has all common sense been ababdoned? How is this even possible?

www.cetusnews.com/news/Transgender-rapist-lag-‘put-in-segregation’-over-‘sexual-advances-to-female-prisoners-.BkeCnqnht-.html

Elendon ... you're attacking someone on "your" side. (And doing it inexplicably aggressively if I may say so.)

I wasn't the only one who questioned you abacuss

You couldn't possibly be passive aggressive by chance ?

I got the impression that abacuss was saying the whole transphobia nonsense was out of control.

labels someone as a "transwoman" instead of "just" a woman

I've seen people called transphobic before for saying that transwomen are transwomen and not women. I'm pretty sure that the CPS guidelines even state that it is transphobic to not acknowledge transwomen as real women or transmen as real men...but tbh I just cannot wrap my head around this claim at all. I'm not sure if that even makes any sense or if I'm going to be able to make my point clear here but I'll give it a shot and hopefully someone will be able to understand where I'm coming from.

If transwomen are women and transmen are men then surely there is no such thing as transphobia at all therefore making the whole point moot. What I mean by that is the fact that transphobia does exist and is a thing proves that transwomen are not women and transmen are not men.

You can't say that transwomen are women and transmen are men and then later turn around and claim they were discriminated against for being trans or claim they've been on the receiving end of transphobia.

@IAmEatingACurry made a similar point I'm trying to make here on the last trans thread (but obviously much better worded!).

I've just realised that my post doesn't make sense

The words transwomen, women, transmen and men are also beginning to sound strange after reading that post back.

Yy Empress and yy Ferrets, it's a mess.

Elendon, no, honestly not at all.

I have to say though it's interesting being seen as on the wrong side, because I think if I HAD been complaining about perceived transphobia then your repeated angry rants would not have convinced me I was in the wrong, they would have made me dig in further and angrily.

"If I was a transwoman going about my ordinary everyday life (like most transwomen), I would be horrified and disgusted at this man."

You would think, wouldn't you. But to speak out would mean acknowledging that MTT can be rapists and/or men will go to any lengths to access vulnerable women. No, best stay quiet and carry on pretending this never happens.

Sorry abacuss total cross wires on my part.

Oh and I wasn't being angry and I wasn't ranting. (or maybe I am now?) @abacuss

This thread is like being transported back to the 40s with all the outdated bigoted opinions Trans women are women. However, she should certainly remain in isolation while she remains a threat to her fellow prisoners. Being female does not make her less dangerous for sure.

This thread is like being transported back to the 40s with all the outdated bigoted opinions

Such as?

Trans women are women

In that case they can't claim bigotry or transphobia when they feel they've been discriminated against.

If transwomen are women then it follows that transphobia doesn't exist. Think about it now.

Trans women are women In what way?

I'm still baffled at the thought process among the many who made the decision to allow someone who raped women to serve their term in a women's prison. What kind of fucked up risk assessment process was that?! How was that not the case from which a sensible policy vis a vis transpeople in prison was formed?

It's reminds me of gun legislation reform in the US - if Sandy Hook didn't change anything, then nothing will.

"Omg so now because a man has been raped who previously raped a woman he should be put in a women's prison to keep him safe!!!"

^^this! Why can't they create a safe haven unit within a male prison for transgender m-f inmates. They're kept safe and women are left out of it. There can't be that many of them...oh wait...

ferrets much though I share your standpoint - that particular logic doesn't hold.

You can be done for discrimination and harassment by treating someone badly on the basis of them being gay, when they are not gay.

So you can perpetrate discrimination on the basis of being transgender even if the person is a woman.

I think you are entirely correct to be outraged. It is outrageous on ever level I can think of.

I'm surprised you've not been slated though by more folk. Perhaps if you ask for it to be moved Feminism section where there are some very intriguing notions of gender in its widest sense then the blue touch paper will get lit.

Stands back.

That's not quite what I mean Morphene. Perhaps I'm not explaining myself very well?

What I mean is that if transwomen are women then it surely follows that transphobia cannot exist...because they are not trans...they are women.

However the fact that transphobia is an actual thing should be proof alone that transwomen are not women and have experiences that are specific to being trans.

Hooray. Welcome balsamic I was feeling quite bereft without someone coming on shouting bigot
I don't think you can claim she is female though
How do you differentiate between the sexes which of course you need to do for medical reasons

Balsamicbarbara
Being female would make him less violent. But he's not female. He's male. If he were female he couldn't have raped a woman.

In a women's prison for committing a crime that women can't commit! It's ludicrous!

lollipop there is already a thread in the feminism section. It's broadly similar to this one (MN is not exactly what you might call the fun-fem, tumblr, brains-fallen-out end of feminism, if you were expecting cries of "transphobic bigot" from the feminist section).

Being female does not make her less dangerous for sure.

I'm not sure what you mean? Females are far far less likely to commit sexual offences (over 98% of convictions are of males). So being female would make someone less dangerous. However Winfield is not female. Whether or not you believe trans women are women, trans women are not female. They are male.

So yes, being a trans woman does not make Winfield less dangerous than when she sexually assaulted two girls as a man. So why the heck is she in a female prison?

Can change his name to a woman's name, undergo £10k of treatment/surgery, but clearly what you can't change is his sense of male entitlement.

Tara Hudson:

At one point, she says, she even feared she was going to be raped: "I was left unattended with a rapist in the communal room, and he'd been very suggestive. I just kind of, I don't know, used my people skills to fend them off as best as possible."

Well I wonder how bio female prisoners feel about being locked up with bio male rapists

www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/paris-lee-placing-a-trans-woman-in-a-mens-prison-is-a-cruel-and-unusual-punishment-a6923831.html

This thread is like being transported back to the 40s with all the outdated bigoted opinions hmm Trans women are women. However, she should certainly remain in isolation while she remains a threat to her fellow prisoners. Being female does not make her less dangerous for sure.

Being female - lol! Explain how a rapist with a penis is female and perhaps you'll have a point