To think you dont put a rapist in a woman's prison?

[bambambini]

Do women really not count here, has all common sense been ababdoned? How is this even possible?

www.cetusnews.com/news/Transgender-rapist-lag-‘put-in-segregation’-over-‘sexual-advances-to-female-prisoners-.BkeCnqnht-.html

There aren't women rapists blueberry. You need a penis to rape

If there were a gay male rapist, they would stick him in the male prison despite his preferred type of victim being there, so it cuts both ways.

WTF is a 'gay male rapist'? Or do you simply mean men who rape other men?

You do realise that the majority of men who rape other men are heterosexual and that rape has very little (if anything) to do with sex?

Oh, there is. You don't need a penis to rape.

In the UK only men can be charged with rape. Women can be charged with sexual assault but not rape.

blueberry There's a very clear legal definition of rape in the UK, which I'm sure you know. What you are referring to would be prosecuted as 'assault by penetration'

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/section/1

Of course males can be convicted of both crimes as they, you know, have a penis.

There's no such thing as an "ex-rapist", Balsamic. HTH.

In the UK only men can be charged with rape. Women can be charged with sexual assault but not rape

What about transwomen? Legally recognised as female, yet has a penis? I suspect that in time the sexual offences stats will change to include many more "women"

...and obviously transwomen who still have their penis.

blueberry, of course there are women who murder, women who sexually assault people, women who commit all kinds. of crimes. But they do not exist in any kind of the sort of numbers as there are male criminals who do these things.

The women's prison population is 5% of the total prison population. Less than 20% of those have been convicted to a crime involving violence. That means that less than 1% of the prison population is composed of women who have committed a violent crime.

In contrast, the numbers for men are a bit more difficult to aggregate, but from the stats I see, over half of the men in prison are there for violent and/or sexual crimes.

So:
approx 1% of the prison pop = violent women.
approx 50% of the prison pop - violent men.

It's nonsense to compare the two.

(It's also going to be even more nonsense in the future, when rapists are described as women, and their crimes recorded as women's crimes, when the rapes have been perpetrated by a penis.)

Morphene those two things aren't mutually exclusive though are they. Misogyny and sexualisation of women is deep ingrained in our cultures. When if the time comes, when women are truly respected, then we can argue about non-segregation. It has nothing to do with hiding girls away but everything to do with providing them safe spaces and privacy wherever the need arises. Sadly that includes schools!

It's funny how boys and men ogle and sexually harass women because they haven't seen boobs and flesh from the start. Funny how it doesn't apply the other way. I feel no need to grope random men or ogle their penis without their consent just because I haven't been exposed to a few during my childhood. Justifying men's inappropriate and unwanted behaviour and blaming women for not being more naked is just what we need to fight misogyny.

sprinkle I agree it would be better if the respect came first...I just don't see how that can happen.

Women will always be 'other', mysterious and general different if we keep sex segregation going.

Primary schools are a place where kids will either learn that boys and girls are separate species and it is a terrible crime for one to see the other naked....or it will be a place where children know they are all human and nobody's body is shameful and everyone should be treated with mutual respect.

I really can't get my head round why anyone would choose the first option.

Setting aside all the transphobia, I don't see the argument as to why a trans woman ex-rapist is necessarily unwelcome in a woman's prison. If there were a gay male rapist, they would stick him in the male prison despite his preferred type of victim being there, so it cuts both ways.

Do you really need to have it explained to you again?

Again, transwomen are male. Gay men are also male. They both belong in the men's prison therefore. Easy! Just apply a bit of common sense, and you will suddenly understand it!

"Primary schools are a place where kids will either learn that boys and girls are separate species and it is a terrible crime for one to see the other naked....or it will be a place where children know they are all human and nobody's body is shameful and everyone should be treated with mutual respect."

Or perhaps a sane middle ground? You know, your body is lovely and to be celebrated, but it is also your body, and it's entirely up to you and no-one else who you choose to show it to or not.

That's the whole point - personal boundaries are to be set by the person involved, not imposed upon them by some third party.

I just don't care what they do in public places. I accept this is who they are. Also, I have no intention to check their pants and none of of my business.I just feel differently about prisons though but it is a case by case issues for me

Well, nice for you that your delicate, precious feelings are so lovely and righteous and you theoretically don't want women to be raped by male rapists in women's prisons.

Guess what? It does not work like this. This moment, politics are done because of your willingness to pretend that someone with a penis can be female.
You support males with penises being legally treated as women, you are responsible for males in women's prison raping women there. You just are, and I blame you. I blame you. I hold you responsible. You do not get out of this because you oh so very generously "feel differently about prisons".

Your feelings matter shit all. You cannot say that "transwomen are women" and then add "except in prison, where some transwomen are men, but only a few of them. On a case to case basis."

You are not an absolute ruler who gets to make those case to case decisions based on your precious feelings.
You are one citizen who has a vote, and if you use that vote to vote against women, and for the notion that "woman" is a feeling in a man's head, then I hold you responsible for the rapes that the males you voted into women's spaces commit as results.

Perhaps you don't care what I think, but know this: I blame you.

This goes for all those trans allies who think they can be morally pure and free of all responsibility by voting males into women's spaces and adding: "Oh, but I don't approve of the rape I enable. I just wish that would be avoided somehow."

So How you plan to enforced people outside of prison if they did no harm to people?

I mean, if you go to a store, and a transgender uses a lady room, how you plan to check for penises?

I would hope that 'genuine' trans women would not wish to cause and embarrassment to women. Much like a woman would act
Some though hold onto male entitlement
A therapist who had worked with many MTT was interviewed on R4. It was very interesting. They stated that no matter what the stage of transition or how long they had 'been living as a woman' they all, bar one, retained typically male behaviour
Strange that

Women will always be 'other', mysterious and general different if we keep sex segregation going.

And? So what?

You cannot just ignore reality. Primary schools exist in reality, a reality where the fathers of those children watch porn.

How many girls should be sacrificed and subjected to sexual harrassment by boys? Which girls? Should straws be drawn to decide which girl is fed to the dragon so that others might, possibly be safe in the future?

Voluntary sex segregation - which sex segregated public spaces mostly are the result of - is a reaction to misogyny.
To forcibly suppress it is like forcibly suppressing the body's reaction to an illness. If you force someone who is ill and has no appetite to eat, they'll likely throw up, and you will only have succeeded in making things worse.

Fight misogyny, and you will find that sex segregation goes away on its own.

Don't fight misogyny, but suppress segregation, and the BEST thing that can happen is for people, including males, to segregate voluntarily, creating inofficial rules on who uses which one of the shiny new "gender neutral" toilets. I needn't tell you what the worst thing is.

I mean, if you go to a store, and a transgender uses a lady room, how you plan to check for penises?

I don't. I check for beards and adam's apples and voice and height and the various other signs that enable us to tell women and men apart. It is not rocket science.

There are only very few people whose voices are just so within the range of the other sex, only very few people whose height and built are in the range of the other sex, too. And most of those people don't identify as trans.

Moreover, there's the reason why we don't want men in women's spaces: They molest women.
Once a man in a dress starts leering at women, he'll be noticed and kicked out, unless there's misogynist genderism laws in place. His behaviour may not meet the criteria for any punishable crime (which is why we don't want men in women's spaces) but it will out him, and in a sane world, that's enough to kick him out of the women's space.

"Moreover, there's the reason why we don't want men in women's spaces: They molest women."

I think you've already lost this one. Unisex bathrooms are increasingly popular. And a great idea, I think, as it means more toilets and fewer queues!

Balsamic.
Do you believe trans women are women and if so what makes them women?
Genuine question. I am really interested in the thought process behind accepting a male as a woman

I think you've already lost this one. Unisex bathrooms are increasingly popular. And a great idea, I think, as it means more toilets and fewer queues!
Unisex bathrooms with floor to ceiling walls and in cubicle sinks are increasingly popular.
Unisex stalls with gaps and shared sinks (ie most non-domestic loos) are certainly not popular. Very few women want to be dealing with a particularly bloody period with men around.
That's why the "we just want to pee"line by TRAs totally misses the point

Unisex bathrooms are increasingly popular. Popular with who?
It may be the case that unisex bathrooms are becoming more common, and may in fact be popular with the company that is installing them. However there doesn't seem to be much evidence that they are popular with the users.

Do you really want to go there and judge and report every women who look like a male to you? Or stop people from peeing just to double check?

There is no need to treat transgenders as criminals if they haven't done anything to anyone.

This is the Pink News taking the Daily Mail to task for deadnaming and misgendering this rapist. Their support is with a rapist over the women being forced to be next to a rapist who is harassing them. The comments are particularly enlightening as to who the trans posters support - and it's not women.

www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/09/08/the-mail-just-implied-a-transgender-rapist-made-unwanted-sexual-advances-because-she-has-a-penis/comments/