To think you dont put a rapist in a woman's prison?

[bambambini]

Do women really not count here, has all common sense been ababdoned? How is this even possible?

www.cetusnews.com/news/Transgender-rapist-lag-‘put-in-segregation’-over-‘sexual-advances-to-female-prisoners-.BkeCnqnht-.html

Feminists were a big supporter of the trans movement
They were taken for a ride (figuratively speaking, probably not literally)
Talk about turkeys welcoming Xmas
Trans movement is pretty much the most offensive and anti-woman thing that has ever happened

I was one of them....I genuinely thought the trans movement was about breaking down gender walls.

Turns out its quite the opposite.

they are still technically male, if they still have their male genitalia

No. They are male whatever surgery they may have had to alter their appearance. A woman is not just a man without a penis!

All I know is that I have a friend who used to be male, I would never had known she wasnt born female if it hadnt been mentioned to me by mutual friends. She is very feminine in appearance, certainly much more than me, sweet, a genuinely lovely woman. The thought of her being sent to a male prison for something non-violent like a tax error or driving accident because she happens to have been born male many years ago is very distressing to me. All I'm asking for is that when people talk about "where trans people should be sent", that they dont simply see trans = a big hairy bearded rapist in a dress.

when people talk about "where trans people should be sent", that they dont simply see trans = a big hairy bearded rapist in a dress

They generally don't. But they do see a male. Who should not be in female spaces for reasons of privacy, dignity, safety, shared experience...

When I look at my friend, I see a female. And so does everyone else. Where is the lookout for HER privacy and dignity and safety? When you're arguing this to try to safeguard "all women", you are arguing that my female-appearing and acting friend should have to show her breasts and shower in front of convicted male rapists. And this is what I mean when I say you are offering innocent parties up for sacrifice.

Imagine your best, sweetest female friend. Now imagine you find out that many years ago they were born a man, they just had surgery and chose to keep it a secret. Now imagine your friend getting sent to a male prison. That is what you are arguing for.

stormtreader does your bestest 'female' friend still have male genitals?

@StormTreader I would be delighted if we were down to the subtleties of where to imprison someone like your friend if she was convicted of a non-violent crime. Unfortunately we can't even get past "rapists with penises don't belong in a women's prison"

annandale I agree with you. I worked in the NHS in the 80's, mixed sex wards were an absolute nightmare. And that was before any official policy, it was usually a result of bedshortages, so not the norm.
It's different in ICU or ITU where the patients are usually very ill and under close observation but on general wards no it doesn't work and most importantly the patients hated it, men as well as women.

Trans people want their fucking safe spaces so much, give then their own damn prison with one wing for ftms and another for mtfs and be done with it.

storm, there should clearly be transgender units seperated from women's prisons.

"Imagine your best, sweetest female friend"

Well when I imagine that, he or she is not a rapist, that's for sure

Imagine your best, sweetest female friend. Now imagine you find out that many years ago they were born a man, they just had surgery and chose to keep it a secret. Now imagine your friend getting sent to a male prison. That is what you are arguing for.

But it's not about your "sweetest female friend", is it. StormTreader? There is currently case after case after case of men who have committed horribly violent crimes, including multiple rapes, who suddenly discover their vulnerable, "female" side, and demand (with vociferous public support) to be put in the women's prison estate. Their crimes are reported as women's crimes, and they are presented as the victims of a cruel, bigoted establishment, instead of the violent woman-hating assholes they are.

This year we got the unedifying spectacle of a multiple rapist, "Lisa" Hauxwell, whose only attempt to transition was to change their name from Craig to Lisa, put on earrings and eyeshadow, and who then went on the run. The Crimewatch and other media reports reported this rapist as a woman, and it a completely predictable twist, also warned viewers that "she may be living as a man". Hauxwell IS a man, a fully intact man, and a rapist, and was rearrested while "living as a man", which merely meant that he'd wiped his eyeshadow off and put on a hoodie before being recaptured. But that didn't stop all the reports referring to "her".

Can you not see how far down the rabbit hole we have gone, Storm?

Where is the lookout for HER privacy and dignity and safety? When you're arguing this to try to safeguard "all women", you are arguing that my female-appearing and acting friend should have to show her breasts and shower in front of convicted male rapists. And this is what I mean when I say you are offering innocent parties up for sacrifice

Nobody is arguing that trans folk should not have safe spaces, they should of course, however, transactivists are campaigning for transpeople to use women's safe spaces, as opposed to spaces specific to transpeoples' needs.

The other issue of course is how do you definitively tell the difference between a sweet lively genuine transwoman, and someone going through the motions purely to get access to women's spaces.

The other issue of course is how do you definitively tell the difference between a sweet lively genuine transwoman, and someone going through the motions purely to get access to women's spaces

I think this is a massive issue actually. I'm not sure what to do about it. I do think that the 'genuine transwomen' (there are a few here on this board and I know others too) need to say something proactive about this (that does not involve disadvantaging women) because they stand to lose quite badly in many ways.

The genuine trans is ridiculous
A genuine woman/man/trans can still be violent
There is nothing about being trans that makes them less likely to offend
Your sweetest friend is not female. She may identify as a woman but she is not female. This is very important for her and other women. Her medical needs are different
Trans women should be campaigning for their own spaces

That's it, isn't it, YetAnother? The irony is that transwomen who transitioned and tried to just quietly live their lives always were in women-only spaces. There were always transwomen tacitly acknowledged to go to the women-only Michigan Women's Festival, for example, and nobody made a fuss. But they weren't swinging their dicks around and yelling I AM MORE OPPRESSED THAN YOU, EVIL CIS LESBIANS, SO SERVE ME AND PUT ME FIRST, so very few women minded, or even noticed.

That's not possible now.

I agree Archery. I also don't want to throw these transwomen under the bus and have them share a cell with the likes of Muscato and a few rabid penis swingers I am personally associated with ... but at the same time I'm not fighting their battles for them.

Although by "always", I'd change that to "very occasionally", as trans as such was still not much of a thing.

And even then, looking back on it, the transwomen I knew back in the day did not ever claim to be biologically women.

itsAllgoing I agree with you, cannot fully alter your biology, they will always be biologically male. What I am saying is that, it is wrong for that prisoner to be put into a Female only prison, he is dangerous, and they are vulnerable. The prison service has a duty of care to all inmates, not just one.

You know a few years ago i was a total trans ally and would have bern disgusted at the many threads in mumsnet. Then i learned of the sports issue. Then i started reading and followed both Gender critical and transactivists. I started to feel uneasy and see problems. I still refused to misgender, tried to stay polite and engage. Now I don't want to call them women at all (we partly brought this on ourselves by being "nice" and tolerant) - find myself taking a pretty hardline stance and will even misgender (used to avoid this by using they) the more aggressive demanding males i come across. Think i've realised being nice - using the language "she", "woman" even "transwoman" allowed this whole Orwellian situation to unfold.

Setting aside all the transphobia, I don't see the argument as to why a trans woman ex-rapist is necessarily unwelcome in a woman's prison. If there were a gay male rapist, they would stick him in the male prison despite his preferred type of victim being there, so it cuts both ways.

I was just going to reply to BB above. Then I realised I had something (anything) better to do with my time.

"Trans woman ex-rapist"

Balsamic - you're just not even trying any more to hide your trolling! 😝

There are women rapists who hurt other women as well. The only different is that women in prison may not have birth control options, abortion, or the best prenatal care in prison.