To be annoyed at this feminist

[PlayOnWurtz]

I happily call myself a feminist and will enter into discussions about it freely in real life and online. I got into one conversation about appearance and politics and how you rationalise body hair removal with feminism. I said I simply feel unclean, it's nothing to do with politics or being oppressed if I don't remove armpit and leg hair I feel like I need a wash.

Cue me being told that I clearly missed the memo on western socialization and oppression and that me removing body hair to feel clean wouldn't happen if I hadn't been socialised to feel this way erm no love I feel like I need a ruddy good wash if I don't shave I'm not oppressed....

AIBU to be annoyed and more than a bit

You can tell whether some misogynistic societal pressure is being exerted on women by calmly enquiring, ‘And are the men doing this, as well?’ If they aren’t, chances are you’re dealing with what we strident feminists refer to as ‘some total fucking bullshit’.

This ^

It's an utter crock of shite that all women shave because of 'societal expectations.' and to say 'does your man do it?! If not then you are bowing to the patriarchy!' What an utter crock.

I shave my pits and bits (well I trim my bush, not ALL of it comes off) because I want to do it, because I feel cleaner and more sexy when I do it, because I don't like the look or feel of a bushy minge.

The fact my husband likes it is a bonus, but I do not do it for him, I do it for ME. (And I don't appreciate people telling me I am 'bowing to societal pressure.')

I shaved before I even MET my husband, (from about 17 years old actually,) because I liked how it looked and felt. I did it when I was in a relationship, and I did it when I was not. I don't shave anywhere else - like arms or legs - because I don't feel I need to as I am fair and the hair is fine and can't be seen anyway.

What really pisses me off is this whole idea that women are 'conditioned' to do it, and if we say we aren't we are lying.

Fuck off to the far side of fuck. I know my own goddamn mind!

It's a myth that feminism is about choice. Feminism is about the liberation of women

Sounds like another form of oppression to me.

I'll leave it in the words of Roger Daltrey. Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.

pondering nope not silly to me but obviously to you. Your choice isn't silly it's your choice. Mine is different. Each are valid. Neither are silly.

cao no feminism is all about choice. Not sure what you mean by freedom? Freedom to choose? If yes then we agree.

Yes it would, or they might not bet aware of shaving, like some tribes. If I am going swimming, I definitely tidy up down there, nothing more , with my hair hanging out my swimming costume.

Loving, I meant 'silly' in the biological sense. The hair has a purpose, removing it comes with health risks.

Feminism should be about widening a woman's choice, to do what they want to do.

"@CaoNiMartacus

"beast"

"fighting"

You seem like exactly the type of feminist I mentioned."

Just checking before anyone offers a measured response- are you taking the piss? Did you read the whole post?

bert

It would be womenz though wouldn't it

Or gentlemenz and ladiez

For those who are suggesting shaving areas other than pubic area or arm pits e.g. head, bear in mind that the body has 2 very distinct types of sweat glands. The ones in the groin/pubic area and under the arms produce much thicker sweat that is also a prime food for bacteria, which is what causes the unpleasant smells associated with sweaty pits.

If someone has very productive sweat glands in those areas, and is also quite hairy, then they WILL tend to smell more if they don't remove the hair and/or wash very thoroughly and frequently (e.g. several times a day)

I remove body hair. I'm fully aware I only make this choice as I've been socialised into it. I don't much care.

CaoNiMartacus

Do you have a list of replies already to paste onto threads?

FlyingFlipFlop

Coffeetasteslikeshit

With the insinuation that we're poor oppressed women who are doing what we're told and don't have the brainpower to understand that we're under the influence of society / patriarchy. That we're waiting to be enlightened and gain the deeper understanding of society that our hairy sisters have.

user spot on.

aero

I had the bits that escape from a swimsuit lazered

Only those, the lady in the clinic obviously has people that want more or all off...she kept checking

Jeez, with all that's going on in the world we are discussing body hair, yep me to. This is not about feminism in any way whatsoever, it's about choice to do something or not to do something that is connected to conditioning. We are all being conditioned most of the time and guess what, men are to. No one has mentioned mens beards, they also choose whether or not to shave. At the end of the day who the f...k cares. OP is not oppressed and neither am I. I know why I shave and it's my choice. Those feminists that tell me I am oppressed because I shave, think they can push their agenda on me, well sorry I have a brain and can work things out for my self. I "know" I'm conditioned, but I have news for the "feminists" I still choose to shave because like I said who the f...k cares.

pondering yes originally the hair was did serve a purpose in trapping germs and dirt from sensitive areas but we have evolved with showers and modern living. It serves no purpose now so can be removed or not as an individual chooses.

In favour of shaving, freshly shaved everything and clean sheets is just about the best feeling in the world, which I think is nothing to do with misogyny? (in fact it's definitively better to have the whole bed to yourself to starfish in)

I have my leg and armpit hair growing out for quite a bit of the year out of sheer not caring, but I can't get comfortable with long pubes. They itch my knickers.

But she was right tho.

I think you've entirely missed the point. My DH doesn't feel unclean even with all his furry body hair.

Does the hair on your head make you feel unclean OP?? 🤔

@BertrandRussell

Yes, I read the full post.

She seemed to perfectly exemplify my assertion that "I saw [this type of feminism] as an idea held by women who like the idea of a war and having someone to blame for their misfortune."

The post by @chickenwithrice (on page 2, sixth post down,) is one of the most depressing things I have ever read.

I am so grateful I have never, and WILL never feel this way. And neither will any daughter of mine. Like ever.

"Those feminists that tell me I am oppressed because I shave, think they can push their agenda on me, well sorry I have a brain and can work things out for my self. I "know" I'm conditioned, but I have news for the "feminists" I still choose to shave because like I said who the f...k cares."

Do feminists really tell you that you are oppressed because you shave? Or try and push their agenda- whatever that is- on you? Because I have never heard anyone do these things. I have never heard anyone say more than if you make this choice then it's good to know why you're making it, and it may not be the free choice that you think it is. Which you say you do. So fine. Lots of women don't realize it- or deny it.

Fighting the beast

That would be my bastard ironing who I pay another woman to do.

Not sure what that makes me.

You mentioned beards Pensionista. 10 years' ago, men didn't have beards. Now, lots and lots of men have beards. Not because they're more or less comfortable but because it's fashionable to have a beard.

Saying that people do anything in isolation from societal norms is nonsense.

OP of course you're bowing to societal pressure to shave your pits.

If you think you're not you haven't understood socialisation.

Just because it feels good to you doesn't mean the practise doesn't have social roots.

I'm not saying you shouldn't do it - you are free to choose what you want! FWIW I shave in the summer I'm not ardently anti shaving!

But as long as you clung to the naive idea that you are make your choices totally free of the influence of society you will be be in denial of reality. You may choose to live in ignorance I guess.

Most peoole think advertising doesn't affect them. What they really mean is they don't notice it affecting them and they don't like to admit they're easily manupulated.

But it works, it definitely works. Lots if data and the profit of companies shows that. It works because we're designed by evolution to be social creatures. We are influenced by what the pack does. It's in our nature.

I suspect denying it just means you're probablt more easily influenced.

The point is though that OP was denying it was anything to do with social conditioning. This is not the same as saying you should or shouldn't shave.

I like the honesty and awareness of alltouchedout's post:

"I remove body hair. I'm fully aware I only make this choice as I've been socialised into it. I don't much care."

Your head gets very sweaty. I didn't realise just how much until I lost all my hair to chemo. Running like rivers down my head. Now my hair has grown back, I don't wash it as much as I did my bald head - it just doesn't feel as sweaty. I don't think you notice as you always have hair on your head so no comparison.