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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be annoyed at this feminist

530 replies

PlayOnWurtz · 05/09/2017 08:01

I happily call myself a feminist and will enter into discussions about it freely in real life and online. I got into one conversation about appearance and politics and how you rationalise body hair removal with feminism. I said I simply feel unclean, it's nothing to do with politics or being oppressed if I don't remove armpit and leg hair I feel like I need a wash.

Cue me being told that I clearly missed the memo on western socialization and oppression and that me removing body hair to feel clean wouldn't happen if I hadn't been socialised to feel this way Hmm erm no love I feel like I need a ruddy good wash if I don't shave I'm not oppressed....

AIBU to be annoyed and more than a bit Hmm

OP posts:
FaveNumberIs2 · 06/09/2017 18:52

Best feeling in the world = shaved and moisturised legs, clean bedding.

I shave my armpits regularly because I don't like the hairy spikes feeling but everything else gets shaved when I feel like shaving.

Maireadplastic · 06/09/2017 18:53

Although I sometimes shave and sometimes don't, I think 'this feminist' is right.
We are full of contradictions- I don't dye my hair because I think we live in a ridiculously ageist society but also because I think most dyed hair looks crap and I've got great hair. I also wear make-up but I don't wear high heels......

Offred · 06/09/2017 18:59

Yes, I can't wear high heels because I have MS. I feel in the back of my mind that I'm not a 'proper' woman because of that, I worry about how I will manage workwear if I ever get back into work. I know that this is all because of patriarchal standards for womens' appearance and that high heels are ridiculous things to put on your feet. It doesn't really change that I feel badly about it but I do know that it is the standards for appearance that are wrong and not that I am not a proper woman.

Putyourdamnshoeson · 06/09/2017 19:00

Yeah. The feminist is spot on and you've missed the point.
That's not to say that no true feminist shaves. I'm a feminist, I shave legs and armpits. I wish I didn't. I know it's socialization.
We don't have to be perfect.

Lovingmybear2 · 06/09/2017 19:02

I find flat shoes really uncomfortable for my back issue and wear high wedges. I do that for my comfort not to satisfy the patriarchy Grin

I wax my vagina legs and pits because it feels nice bare. Shoot me

DamnThatOnesTakenTryAnother · 06/09/2017 19:03

So what does it make me when a guy tells me not to shave and I do anyway because not shaving makes me sweatier and smellier (genitals and armpits)

Offred · 06/09/2017 19:15

Loving - that's rather irrational. Your back issue won't be improved by wearing high heels. High heels can cause back problems.

Walkingdead11 · 06/09/2017 19:18

I smell whether I shave or not....it's normal to smell and no one has sweaty lower legs......😂

DamnThatOnesTakenTryAnother · 06/09/2017 19:35

Offred- yes high heels CAN cause back issues but equally sometimes high heels come doctor recommended....I say as the only kid allowed to wear heels when I was at school

Offred · 06/09/2017 20:01

small heels can be recommended. What I am talking about is high heels. Small heeled shoes are not what is promoted as feminine. Small heeled shoes are considered 'frumpy', it is specifically high heels that are the beauty standard pushed by the patriarchy and those give you problems with feet, joints and your spine. They would never be recommended by doctors.

Offred · 06/09/2017 20:02

though it did amuse me imagining a five year old tottering round the playground in 5in 'fuck me' shoes

BertrandRussell · 06/09/2017 20:07

I find the hygiene reasons for shaving pubic hair baffling. I can see why removing hair around the vulva might make difference, but who gets urine and menstrual blood on the triangular bit?

nonamesleftatall · 06/09/2017 20:26

Im not really sure what my opinion is. I often go for long periods of time (months) without shaving legs/ armpits and presently have a full on 70s bush down there. I am quite a busy person work full time/ two children/ like to socialise and currently building as extension so I'm known for being a I'll do it tomorrow type. It really doesn't bother me
having hair, however when you have just shaved it does feel lovely. So soft and how your legs feel on the sheets etc.. plus from a public and underarm point of view I do think it's genuinely cleaner. I think I prefer no hair but possibly on men too in certain areas too. I'm babbling I don't know what I think.

Offred · 06/09/2017 20:32

But there's not really a 'think' about it. There is science. Science which says it is less hygienic (and sometimes even quite dangerous if you shave it). People feel it is 'cleaner' because that's the message that sexism (and capitalism) tells us.

Cessj · 06/09/2017 20:42

I stopped shaving probably about twenty years ago, but saying that, I never really got into it as I'm 'fortunate' in that I really don't have much body hair...all of it seems too be on my head! I did find that when I shaved the few hairs on my legs, that they grew back more profusely, so it was counter-productive. I have a few paltry underarm hairs, but as a matter of principle, I refuse to shave or wax them.

My DH is the complete opposite - he looks like a silver back gorilla -but does he worry about his hirsuteness? Heck, no.

As far as I'm concerned, the hair is there for a purpose and while I appreciate that some women might be conscious about sweating etc., I refuse to be a slave to waxes, creams, shaving on the basis that men aren't expected to be hair free, I'm sick of the double standards, and if anyone finds the few straggly armpit hairs offensive, that's their problem, not mine.

I do however, wax my mustache, and pluck the odd hair that appears on my chin. But that's more about personal vanity..

Walkingdead11 · 06/09/2017 20:45

"Pubic hair removal naturally irritates and inflames the hair follicles left behind, leaving microscopic open wounds. Rather than suffering a comparison to a bristle brush, frequent hair removal is necessary to stay smooth, causing regular irritation of the shaved or waxed area. When that irritation is combined with the warm moist environment of the genitals, it becomes a happy culture medium for some of the nastiest of bacterial pathogens, namely Group A Streptococcus, Staphylococcus aureus and its recently mutated cousin methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA)."

Mmmmm hygiene............

Morphene · 06/09/2017 20:47

Why are people ashamed of being social creatures? Its normal to experience peer pressure and to make decisions based on socialization....its not an insult - its a normal part of being human Confused

PlinkyTheFairyWitch · 06/09/2017 20:52

I find the hygiene reasons for shaving pubic hair baffling. I can see why removing hair around the vulva might make difference, but who gets urine and menstrual blood on the triangular bit?

If you're not using internal sanpro and have heavy periods, this is totally possible. I have extra-long fabric towels for just this kind of situation, plus mooncup.

My personal test in questions of whether something is societally/patriarchally/socially influenced is - would you honestly still do it if aliens abducted everyone on the planet but you? If yes, chances are you're doing it for yourself. So I am totally on board with someone removing their pubic hair for period reasons, not that anyone needs my approval. Ditto the way shaved legs feel nice on sheets and so on. I can see myself doing that for fun in the post-alien world. Can't you?

What I wouldn't do is feel the need to shave for other people's perceived approval. Not shaving wouldn't make me feel bad. It's this I object to in general.

AllieBomBally · 06/09/2017 21:16

Why does removing body hair make you a bad feminist? Are there rules to being a 'good feminist'? Maybe we've gone from men telling us womenfolk what is acceptable to a group of women dictating it instead. You can't call yourself a feminist if you remove your body hair, what bullshit!! Do what you do for yourself and don't make excuses about it, that's true feminism!!!!!!!

Walkingdead11 · 06/09/2017 21:21

But have you ever examined if you actually do it for yourself? Or have you been influenced? Women generally didn't do all this stuff 20 years ago.

BertrandRussell · 06/09/2017 21:21

"You can't call yourself a feminist if you remove your body hair, what bullshit!"

Can I gently suggest you read the thread?

Datun · 06/09/2017 21:27

I shave my legs.

I'm a feminist.

I know why I shave.

fullofhope03 · 06/09/2017 21:30

Confusedat23 - Surely feminism is about having a choice on matters?
Women bashing other Women because they shave their bodies is not feminism, it is just women being as bad as men for bashing women who do not shave their bodies!
Agree with this. And feminism/being a feminist is embracing equality, fairness. IMHO, it's entirely possible to be a feminist AND shave your pits, legs, trim your bush. And, even wear make-up. OR not. And/or, do both. According to how you, as an intelligent, non-judgemental, free thinking woman feel.

Datun · 06/09/2017 21:34

I don't I think anyone tends to 'bash' feminists for shaving. Many feminist shave!

It's not about bashing the decision, it's about talking about the reasons the decision might be made in the first place.

Offred · 06/09/2017 21:35

Why are people ashamed of being social creatures? Its normal to experience peer pressure and to make decisions based on socialization....its not an insult - its a normal part of being human

This is related to the 'freedom of choice' thing people keep spouting. Modern western capitalist democracies are founded on individualism.

The idea that people are influenced by the culture they grew up in offends people who like to think of themselves as 'individuals' with 'freedom of choice'.