Why can't Teacher training be done in summer holidays

[daffodil10]

Why do summer holidays need to be extended by 3 days to cover inset days when teachers have had 6 weeks off. And before I get shot down I realise they may have been in school over the holidays etc. But what is the point in going back to school on a Thursday

In which case the issue is actually with your school and not the whole system
That's a selfish answer, I am so everyone else can go whistle. Is there a reason why inset days cant be set on regionally level for the same day every year. ie after the last or before first day of x term.

If people wanted speakers in (say on a new exam, or teaching technique) then it is helpful if all the inset days in their area are not on the same day.

I don't think that was a selfish answer, it's saying that it didn't raise a problem with the existence of inset days but a problem with how one school organises them and communicates with parents.

I've taught at 5 schools. All set inset days in advance. Out of curiosity looked at websites of 4 nearby schools . All list 2018/19 term dates already....

External providers delivering required training can hardly be expected to deliver it to all the region's schools at the same time.

ok, well I can see there is a reason for not having them all at the same time.

But still no excuse for not notifying everyone a year in advance

I have just looked at 5 county websites which list dates for 2017/18 year, 2018/19 year and one even has the 2019/20.

I know some schools don't follow these - academies and foundation schools but although knowing the INSET days helps a little you have a rough idea.

fresh
It's not a selfish answer at all.

Fact is, it is common to publish in advance. More often than not people either don't read the letters/newsletters or forget (as other posters have said they have done many a time).
If for whatever reason a school hasn't, then that is an issue for that school to solve, not a reason to change the entire system because it pisses a few people off.

Often in our LA they're fairly similar depending on who has done twligight sessions. Schools will select the rest based on their school calendar e.g. There's no point doing whole staff training at the end of term if your entire MFL department are taking y10 on a languages exchange.

Our LA always publishes dates for the academic year for the next two years. My DS's school only started publishing inset days last year. We had them for this year just before the school broke up for Summer for the first time. Before that, we sometimes had 48 hours notice. It was a massive pain in the arse. My friends primary school is still as hoc about arranging inset days. Whilst it sounds unusual, there are school that don't arrange them much in advance. I'm not sure how training can be arranged at such short notice.

Once I would have spent time patiently explaining that teachers don't get paid for the holidays. These days I save my breath!

Yes they do! Unless you are telling me that a NQT salary is actually £39772 and is pro ratad down to £22917?!?!?

Fruit cider you're not allow8ng for any paid holiday there!

Teachers are contracted to 1265 directed hours over 195 days (which includes 5 inset days) which is actually 39 weeks, plus 6 weeks annual leave. There are only 7 weeks a year that are unpaid, for 13 weeks off. Whoever said that teachers don't get paid during the holidays is being absolutely ridiculous, hence me boosting up the salary to show how ridiculous the claim was. If the salary was nearly £23000 a year for only 30 weeks work there wouldn't be an issue recruiting or retaining teachers!

It's 28 days annual leave and not 6 weeks. And they aren't paid for the holidays. They Can't be directed in the holidays, the head cant insist they come in I the holidays as they aren't paid for them. Neither can a head insist they stay after the directed time each evening, for the same reason.

The salary is divided over 12 months. But the paid days are the 195. Plus annual leave.

Contractually they are paid for 195 days of the year. Plus 28 days annual leave (that includes bank holidays). But the salary is divided over the 12 months, otherwise August would be hard!

This is why supply teachers directly employed (before agencies started doing this) got a higher daily rate than permanent teachers, because they would not receive pay spread out over the year.

Stpcd says that daily rate for teachers is 1/195.

They are paid during the holidays though, they are paid for annual leave. Yes there are 7 weeks holiday time which is unpaid, but 6 weeks are paid via annual leave. I view teachers contracts as compressed hours anyway as I'm sure most work more than hours they are paid for!

FruitCider, I tutor and the agency I work for pays the daily rate at 1/195 of a full teacher salary at my grade so if I work every school day and INSET (195 days) I get the same salary as a full time contracted teacher but only paid at the end of the months I actually work. I don't get separate holiday pay.

Teacher's pay is just evened out over the year to make budgeting easier.

Fruit nobody is saying they don't get paid for holidays at all. Just that they don't get paid for all 13 weeks.

There isn't 6 weeks annual leave either! There is 28 days, which is 5.6 weeks and includes all bank holidays.

They also have no choice as to when to take this annual leave. They are only paid for 195 days plus 28 days annual leave that must be taken in school closure periods.

I can't believe this thread is still going because some people just seem to hate someone else's terms and conditions.

So 35 pages has told us:

1. We are paid to work term time + inset
2. Add on annual leave thay everyone gets but we get no say on when we take ours
3. That is what we are paid for. So yes, if we worked more than term time then our pay would be higher... because our pay matches our contract
4. Our pay is divided over 12 months
5. We accept that we work more than directed time as part of being a salaried professional. That is fine. Some schools take the piss though.
6. The purpose of schools is to educate children, not provide wrap around care and holiday childcare.
7. If there was a demand for it surely a profit making organisation would run holiday child care.
8. School holidays aren't exactly a shock to parents. It's not like a child hits 4 and suddenly people realise 'oh school holidays exist'.
9. Schools can run training when they like that suits the needs of the school.

10. As many people have pointed out. LAs and schools tend to publish dates years in advance and at the very least on termly letters. 11. Some schools clearly dont. But we don't whine and want the whole system taking apart for the tiny fraction of people who use schools that don't publish and who think someone owes them childcare.

I'm not sure why people get ao annoyed at our terms and conditions (ignore they're eroded). There are pros and cons of every job. Pro i get the summer holiday. Cons, i have no say on my holiday.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: bloody well said @MaisyPops! You've hit the nail on the head, well and truly.

I fail to see what our Terms & Conditions have to do with anyone who isn't a teacher, anyway.

I don't get cross about GP's and Police Officers' pay/holiday entitlements. And it has nothing to do with what provision I might have needed to make for my own children. In the same way that teachers' holidays have nothing to do with how other parents manage.

What is the big fuss about?

thatdearoctopus
I wonder that. People feeling hard done to? Didn't like school themselves so have a chip about teachers? Think that being a tax payer makes them some kind of authority on jobs they know nothing about?

Who knows. It's the same on anything to do witj schools. Some people think they're a bloody expert because they went to school themselves.