Why can't Teacher training be done in summer holidays

[daffodil10]

Why do summer holidays need to be extended by 3 days to cover inset days when teachers have had 6 weeks off. And before I get shot down I realise they may have been in school over the holidays etc. But what is the point in going back to school on a Thursday

In August I pay more for childcare then I earn

And I pay more for childcare than I earn, 12 months of the year. I still have to pay for a full time place even in the school holidays and don't need it. I knew this before I had children.

We all make choices. They may not be nice choices to have. But we all choose and should own that choice.

Ffs your child care and school are completely different things! Stop putting the two together!🙈

No I don't attend training but then I then I get 24 days a year !!

And do you also work unpaid overtime most evenings and each weekend?
I'm not going to bother reading the rest of the thread as it's obvious you don't have much understanding of the teaching job description OP.

'DressedInBinBags

Teachers don't get paid for the holidays. Their wages are done monthly but they get less each month to cover the summer.'

Can I ask a genuine question about that as I've looked at going into teaching but I thought that teachers were salaried for the entire year e. g say 27k for the year rather than monthly?

As a teaching assistant the teachers I worked with got a flat yearly rate so they got the 27k or whatever no matter how many hours they worked where as I was paid 12k a year pro rata.

So my salary was say 12k had I worked all year round but I only got paid for x amount of weeks I worked of that so 9k ish. That was then divided over 52 weeks.
I think I came out with £140 a week after tax and NI. I didn't get paid for the planning meetings I was involved in or teacher training on days I had to come in or when Ofsted were due in and I had to stay till 8pm days...

Sorry I meant full time teachers. Obviously part time teachers are pro rata.

Martha they get the entire amount advertised if full time - that is the annual salary, if they did it just for days in school it would be a larger figure, and then pro rata, iyswim.

I didn't get paid for the planning meetings I was involved in or teacher training on days I had to come in or when Ofsted were due in and I had to stay till 8pm days...

Teaching is one of those professions where you don't get paid overtime, whether you work full-time or part-time. This covers parent eve, planning, marking, extra meetings, etc.
Not sure what your q was though.

I didn't get paid for the planning meetings I was involved in or teacher training on days I had to come in or when Ofsted were due in and I had to stay till 8pm days...

Most professions are salaried only which means they don't get overtime for the extra hours outside the normal working day. I've been an accountant for 35 years and never had as much as an hour of overtime pay despite working longer days, some weekends, etc according to work deadlines, evening/weekend training courses, etc. It's part of being in a profession rather than "having a job" and most professions are like that. I worked for a few years as FD for a factory - just the same there - the "shop floor" were hourly paid, the administration and management were salaried and didn't get overtime etc.

As a teaching assistant you shouldn't be expected to work for free. You could have refused to come in on those days.

I work for a teaching union now. I talk to teachers every day. They've had enough. They love the job of teaching and the kids, but for many the rewards aren't worth the hours and the stresses. And then threads like this that compare them to childcare. Remember that private nurseries pay minimum wage, and require few qualifications. That's happening in schools. Teachers are leaving and being replaced by unqualified TAs.

So actually in a few years you'll probably get your way because schools will just be cheap childcare all year round, with little educational value.

Also for 12 years we never had a holiday, not before or after children. Because we couldn't afford one at the peak times. I had all that time off (but my husband didn't) and I worked through a lot of it. But I couldn't go off on jollies round the world.

Kazzy and Windy you've missed that the pp was a teaching assistant, not a teacher, when she did all those hours.

I just love the way that people who have no experience and no full knowledge of the are keen to pass judgement on teachers' working conditions etc. Would you do that to your doctor / dentist / lawyer etc.? I think not.

I worked fulltime when mine were young back in the 70s. Wraparound care didn't exist, well it didn't where I lived. I managed as two neighbours who had kids similar ages to mine also needed help, we worked it out between us. One picked mine up from school everyday with hers, I had hers all day Saturday when she worked. The other mum worked part-time and would have mine dropped off to hers once or twice a week. We even took each other's kids on holiday at times, one summer mine had 2 weeks in Wales with me and and two of the other children came along. The next week they went away to Devon with one of the other families plus the other families children and finally had two weeks in Cornwall. They loved it but did get a bit fed up with the M5.

Other people I know have done things like have a foreign student stay for six weeks who had a wage and free b&b for the summer with weekends and evening to do what they wanted. Someone else employed a uni student for a month.

There are ways to do it and they don't all cost a fortune.

Kazzy and Windy you've missed that the pp was a teaching assistant, not a teacher, when she did all those hours.
No I didn't. She asked about getting paid for those times as I teacher (I think) and I answered with respect to that. Although I did say I wasn't sure what the q was.
Is a TA a professional type job? If so, unpaid overtime is expected, isn't it? And anyone who has ever worked in a school knows how much extra work they'll try and get out of you without pay.

MS don't know if your comment was directed at me in any way, just for the record I'm a qualified teacher with years of experience of unpaid overtime, lots of contact with TAs. Sadly, many of those I have worked with begrudged giving up a single minute of their time if they weren't paid for it, despite the fact it's expected of teaching staff, citing the much lower pay as an excuse. Totally missing the fact that the difference in pay reflects the difference in training/responsibilities/prep/marking/ meetings, etc.
Of course, I have also worked with many dedicated TAs who just get on with it very capably and accept there will be a few unpaid hours here and there.

Of course a TA isn't a professional type job! Have you seen the salary..?

With those credentials @Windytwigs definitely not directed at you 😃

Of course a TA isn't a professional type job!

The thread is about teachers! Heading is "Why can't Teacher training be done in summer holidays"

Kazzyhoward

Again, no one on this thread has said no other profession ever does unpaid overtime just not everyone in those professions does, unlike all teachers but as someone has already pointed out, the average wage of a teacher is pretty low (TAs even lower), compared to their qualifications and work hours similar to other professions, including yours.

A newly qualified solicitor in a regional firm or smaller commercial practice may expect to earn up to £40,000. Starting salaries for newly qualified solicitors in larger commercial firms and those in the City will be from £58,000 to £65,000, with the larger City firms paying £80,000 or more.

Your salary, reflects the need to spend the time to do the work needed. Teachers don't have this monetary perk in their salary, but they do have the school holidays. No one begrudges you your Solicitor's salary, plenty of people begrudge the school holidays. Can you not see the difference?

Sorry my question was are teachers still salaried as in the get paid 27k or whatever per year regardless of what hours they work or is it like I was as a TA as in the pro rata rate is 27k if you work all year round but because the school year is 39 weeks you only get a percentage of that 27K in the same way I did as a TA?

Does that make sense?

No it's not classed as a professional job but given I was a cover supervisor left in charge of classes for way more than I should have been with input in planning I think TA are treated and paid appallingly!

I do miss being in schools but couldn't afford to go back as a TA!

Sorry x post mistress thanks.

Sorry I know this is about teachers it's just everyone was discussing pay and it seemed a good time to ask :)

Shellygirl I am a part time teacher with 2 under 3 currently. I am currently in the position that every month I am paying out £100 more than I earn before tax on childcare. It sucks.

I enjoy my job, and I know I need to work for my own health benefits which is why I planned for this siutation.

We have no local family support of any kind, one set of Grandparents refuse to babysit and live 2 hours away, the other lives over 4 hours ago. No aunts or uncles local either.

I had even discussed with my husband before number 1 came along the potential issue of INSET days and holiday dates clashing, in the long term plan. We are 'lucky' in the fact that we won't need holiday cover once they are at school. Luckily he is not a teacher so can book holidays but will reduce the time he can have off to do family things.

I am looking to move schools to teach in the same county as I my children will go to school to minimise the holiday issue.

Futher up the thread another poster moaned about schools being inflexible about meeting parents during school hours. Pre children I would happily meet a parent at 5pm/530pm etc. Sadly I now have a nursery deadline and work 45 mins away from nursery so I can't do that or I could but it would require my husband (who does drop off so I can be at school on time) to work a short day/take a short lunch and have to make up time another day that week - how is that fair? He does this for parents evening and other after school things about 10 times a year.

Us teachers can also be parents with the same issues.

The starting salary for a NQT is around 22K I believe. So a full time NQT would earn that sum for working 1265 hours per year. The fact that every teacher will spend time working longer that that, doesn't increase that salary.

As has been said time and time again, teachers are not paid for holidays, but they are paid monthly, so instead of having a slightly higher salary for most of the year and nothing in August, some of Decembervand some of March/April, they have equal payments each month.

If a NQT works part time, the salary will be pro rata. For example, three days a week is 60/100ths, so that's the proportion of full time salary they get and they get that each month.. if they choose to go in on a day off, or work in the he evening or on days off, there is no more money for that.

Task are completely exploited by schools, it's not fair at all.

All my friends who do similar professional jobs earned way more than I did after 12 years in the job. And they usually got company bonuses and were treated with reasonable levels of respect. They weren't constantly asked to produce paperwork to prove they were doing what they were doing anyway, as their employers trusted them as professionals.

I have many teacher friends who work in different counties to their own children. One had no Easter or half term the same last year- so had to arrange chilled everyone else.

Kazzy are you hard of thinking?
A poster mentioned her experience of being a TA. Brief discussion of this ensued.