Why can't Teacher training be done in summer holidays

[daffodil10]

Why do summer holidays need to be extended by 3 days to cover inset days when teachers have had 6 weeks off. And before I get shot down I realise they may have been in school over the holidays etc. But what is the point in going back to school on a Thursday

That is a BRILLIANT idea, spaniel.

Teachers get 6-7 weeks annual leave each year to be taken at a point that suits them and the school. Then 5 INSET days to be decided by the school. It would definitely get rid of all those teachers have 13weeks holiday a year, they should join the real world threads.

RafaIsTheKingOfClay
Does that mean my pay goes up as well seeing as my contract has changed?

I'm currently only paid for 39 weeks of the year. If people want me to work for more than that then my salary better go up to reflect the increase.

Or are people suggesting that teachers should take on a few months extra work for no pay?

Or we could just stop having people weighing in on the terms and conditions of others. I mean. I wouldn't start thinking i had the right to suggest my hairdresser changes her contract to suit me. I wouldn't suggest my DH on flexible hours isn't in thr real world etx, because I'm not a dick who spends my time getting annoyed at other people's work.

I had a career before teaching. There were pros and cons. Now I'm a teacher thete are pros and cons. The difference is nobody in the general public felt compelled to weigh in and judge how 'real world' my job was before teaching.

People have a right to an opinion on how public money is spent. Of course teachers could do their training in the summer holidays but you would have to pay them more. Which at the minute seems unlikely, so for that reason it wont happen.

THEY Are ALREADY DONE IN THE SCHOOL HOLIDAYS.

It's an error to assume that if INSET days were moved anywhere else on the calendar, including the middle of the summer holidays, that parents would have to find any less childcare. It would have no effect on the number of days their children are on holiday.

It's like banging your head against a brick wall!

People have a right to an opinion on how public money is spent.
This is dangerously close to those parents who argue we should put on extra intervention for their child because 'my taxes pay your wages'.
The general public gets to vote on spending. That is different to 'i pay taxes so i should be able yo say you should work so many hours' (without actually understanding our contracts)
Of course teachers could do their training in the summer holidays but you would have to pay them more
Which at the minute seems unlikely, so for that reason it wont happen
Training days are ALREADY in the summer holidays. We don't need paying more for them.

What we need is people to spend a little less time bitching that they have to sort child care in the school holidays (hardly a shocker), a little less time thinking thay because they pay taxes (just like we do!) that they have the right to weigh in on contract information that they know nothing about and maybe spend a little more time paying attention to the bigger issues (and I'm not going yo mention our real terms pay cut and changes to pensions because I don't expect the public to care about that):

• impact of primary testing
• rushed gcse reforms where a 4 means you can't resit but there's no guarantee that it will be accepted later as a 5 is a good pass
• massive shortage of teachers (for a range of reasons including: workload, time spent not doing teaching, behaviour, endless reform e.g. we had 5/7 years get scrapped and changed in 1 year!)
• thr fact that some schools are propped up by unqualified teachers
• the fact that not only do you not need to be qualified to teach, you don't even need a degree
• that funding for SEN is a bitch to get for students
• that most schools don't have enough TAs
• that schools are having their funding slashed (mine by around £500,000!! Others locally are worse)
• cuts to school trips and enrichment because they can't afford the cover costs
• changes to FE and vocational learning
• narrowing of the curriculum, especially the arts and practical subjects in favour of a traditional academic route that doean't suit all learners.

I could go on. The thing is people who are quick to go on about how they're entitled to comment on our pay, terms and conditions almost never seem to give a shit about the stuff that really impacts on the kids. I rarely see them lobbying MPs to appeal cuts etc. Much easier to have a pop at teachers and say we aren't in the real world.

I know I've got wound up here but it really pisses me off. Every day I see the impact of shitty decisions on children and all a chunk of people care about is whether my 5 days training is/isn't in the holiday and why said holidays are a problem to them

Thing is, if these parents got their way and their children were at school an extra 5 days a year (so kids 195 days and teachers 200) then they would still moan about training days. The teachers are in school but I have to look after my own child, outrageous! They should do their training in the holidays!

Some won't be satisfied, I expect, until they don't have to look after their children at all.

noble
You're right.

Some people think we are glorified babysitters and the point of school is to give convenient free childcare in a way that suits them and their lives. So it must be available from 8-6pm all year round in some form but also when there's a controlled assessment deadline that counts to their final GCSE grade a fortnight's holiday in y11 should be unchallenged because they 'have a right to a holiday' (and then expect intervention to catch their child up).

After all, we aren't highly trained professionals, we're just public sector workers who should bark on command.

@MaisyPops for Prime Minister! Well said chica! And @noblegiraffe too! Well said folks.

Thanks MS
I know I shouldn't get so wound up but I really think people should do a week in our shoes before deciding they know best.

A couple of years back I had to tell a class 12 weeks from their exam that the coursework that was worth 20% of their grade had just been pulled and was worth 0%. The extra 20% was added to thr exam with 12 weeks to go.
The kids were furious.
Staff were furious.

I get so wound up knowing so many rubbish decisions are made that will screw kids over (often the most vulnerable, those with SEND and those from socially deprived backgrounds who suffer most) and all people care about is whether it's 'fair' that I'm paid for 39 weeks the year.

The thing is people who are quick to go on about how they're entitled to comment on our pay, terms and conditions almost never seem to give a shit about the stuff that really impacts on the kids.

^^This.

As a parent I refer, from my perspective, to the children's school holidays! I am not saying teachers should work in their holidays, I certainly dont think they would want to but I am saying they could, at some cost.

And because it has a cost I do think we are entitled to talk about it. Just as I think we should be able to comment on any public sector pay. That does not mean I dont give a shit about what happens to all the other stuff in schools that impact children.

It just seems inefficient for children to start a new school year on a Thursday.

Honestly Fresh, as a teacher I love starting school on a Thursday. You can take Thursday and Friday to teach routines, laying out copies, do getting to know you activities etc and then are ready to hit the ground running in the next full week. It makes the rest of the year run much more smoothly and efficiently if you take a few days to train them in.

Start dates are for individual schools.
Start on a thursday may mean not having a split week later in the year
Our students were in on Tuesday, we have a mid week finish later in the year.

fresh You say we could at a cost. But what for? To make life easier for parents who whinge about 5 training days a year?
There are 5 training days a year. They need to be spread out through the year.
Many schools already do twilights to cut one or 2 of them out.

I could not sustain the work levela I do in term time if someone decided to change my contract and conditions. So what goes? The additional revision and intervention?
The extra curriculars?
The residential trips?
The frequency of marking reducing?
Reduce the amount of time I'm back after school doing pastoral things?

Something would give. It would have to. And then there'd be more bitching and whining because Katie is only on a 5 but she wants a 7 and why am i not running extra classes after school because as a taxpayer they can tell me what to do.

Liadain, I am not moaning about inset days verses 'holidays'. But parents do, so isn't it ok to discuss if there is a better way to do it or maybe discover there isn't a better way to do it?

There are days in the year that are completely wasted due to a term starting or ending on an odd day. Pupils miss a day at the start to get a longer holiday, or leave a day early to get a cheaper holiday. That's obviously shitty parenting (debatable) but it does harm the children. There are subjects that are studies in blocks which mean they do 5 weeks of a subject one term and then 1 week the next. Which seems ok but does feel like it might impact how much they learn in one week after a holiday. Terms are set a few years in advance but inset days are often sprung on everyone with not a lot of notice.

Would a better system not be to have fixed unchanging terms of 6 and 7 weeks with the 5 inset days done outwith those dates at the teachers convenience. Isn't it a win win?

Given that students are in school 190 days, but there are some times where they will not be able to be at school for the full 5 days because of bank holidays (e.g. May Day, Good Friday sometimes) then there will always be the odd days that need putting elsewhere.

inset days are often sprung on everyone with not a lot of notice
Really? Every school I've ever worked in publishes the dates for the following year in the July of the previous academic year or the start of september in the 1sr newsletter. They also have them on the website.

There are days in the year that are completely wasted due to a term starting or ending on an odd day. Pupils miss a day at the start to get a longer holiday, or leave a day early to get a cheaper holiday
We started on a Tuesday. No days have been wasted.
If parents choose to remove their child for the sake of a holiday, so be it. That's their call and I may personally agree/disagree depending on the situation.

Personally, i think there's enough notice. Even with my school publishing over a year in advance I still have a student in my class who will be missing the first 2 and a half weeks of school for a holiday.

Personally, I'd happily take 2 weeks off the summer and put an extra week holiday in the autumn term and spring terms. Logistics on exams would need to be worked out though as the results still need to be in by july for results in august, but there'd be 2 weeks less teaching time.
I think 4 weeks off at summer is good though. I like to go travelling and recharge after the madness of exam season. Having a chunk of holiday is one of thr perks of the job and counters some of the less good parts.

But it wouldn't help, because the kids would still be in school the same number of days? Where is the saving?

Also, training days are published at the start of every term. They have to be for teachers contracts and directed time. What actually usually happens is that parents (I include myself here 3 times) forget and it is the reminder a week before that panics them.

They are never sprung on parents. Training days take months to plan, they don't just happen at any time. Most schools only have 3 now anyway because they do twilight sessions. Funnily enough we never had parents complain about the Monday and Tuesday training days in July that meant term actually ended on the Friday.

FYI, I left teaching 2 years ago for an office job with standard holiday provision (28 days). I now have to pay for holiday childcare, and have significantly less than I had. And you know what, I don't miss the holidays, and it certainly isn't enough for me to go back and put up with all the other crap.

I'm not sure schools and teachers can be blamed for parents choosing to take their children out of school on a term day. That said, it is definitely something that SLTs discuss when deciding term dates. Precisely because some parents book holidays including the beginning or end of term, and that impacts on attendance figures for the school.

Funnily enough we never had parents complain about the Monday and Tuesday training days in July that meant term actually ended on the Friday.
True that!

As proven with my student who is extending their summer holidays by 2.5 weeks, there are always people who think the world should bend to fit them.

I once had a parent demand a pack of work for their chils because they were taking an 8 week trip in term time! Apparently I have a DUTY to ensure their child is educated. I replied that I do, when they send their child to school.
I happily provide loads of tailored packs for children with medical issues or circumstances that make school difficult but no way was I making a pack of work because someone wanted an 8 week holiday.

They wanted you to provide 8 weeks of work?! WTAF?!
Stay in school. Or pay for a tutor. Cheeky fuckers!!

I've had that before. I also once had a kid admit he'd done no work towards an assessment, but mum wanted me to give up 2 hours after school a week to help
doitfor him. Yeah, no thanks.

wolfie
Yeah! Piss takers. They went round a few of us asking for different subjects.
Thankfully our leadership team were great. They called and said 'want your child educating then send them to school'.
We also made notes outlining the absence for when home inevitably complained that their child was underperformimg later in the year (which they did!).