DP and parents AGAIN

[thetwocultures]

I know this is bloody stupid but these little things just give me headaches

I know some people on here have followed my previous posts about DP and my parents not getting along. They don't see each other and don't talk due to working together in the past.

My AIBU:

I'm going to see my parents today with DS, my DDad text me yesterday asking if I could bring DSs bike seat as they were thinking of going for a ride.

The bikes are kept in a garage at DPs office (he's self employed). I asked DP if the bike seat is hard to take off and he said it's a bit of a faff as its screwed on etc. and asked me why - I told him DDad asked as they wanted to go for a bike ride etc. Immediate awkward/weird atmosphere.
I asked DP if he's in the office in the morning so I could pop in on my way there and he didn't really reply (about half and hour before this he mentioned that he's in the office most of the day BTW). Asked if he wouldn't mind having a look for me if I come up as I'd like to take it with me.
Again no real answer, I left it for the night I know most subjects re my DPs put his back up.

This morning before going to work he told me that the bike seat is not a good idea, and that I know how he feels about the situation and that he doesn't want to get involved in anything to do with my DP(arents). He also said it would be a pain to take off and put back on. And he said I would probably be unable to do it myself if I came and would then ask him and he doesn't want to get involved. He reiterated he's happy for me to stuff with them etc but doesn't want anything to do with it/wants to be kept separate. I was sat there a bit
I asked him what he expects to happen and he said they should buy their own bike seat. (DS is two and this will be the first and probably only time until at least next year that they take him for a ride hardly worth the £££s)

He then gave me a kiss as he was getting ready to leave, I just said that this just makes it harder for me and didn't really speak. He left for work.

AIBU to be put off that he's unwilling to even help me if I need it? I understand he doesn't get on or want anything to do with my parents (even though I found it extremely sad and upsetting in the past) but this just seems petty.

Also AIBU to think that expecting someone to shell out for a bike seat that might be used 2 X times a year IF that is a bit crap? Especially as it means that we can't go for a bike ride today as we won't have a seat?

I'm tempted to just go up and try and take the bloody thing off myself but I think I probably won't be able to as I'm terrible at it. I'm just annoyed

You are heavily pregnant so presumably not going on the bike ride but are happy to let a heavy drinker/alcoholic take a 2 year old out on a bike. You also say you accommodate your DH's wish that dc is not left alone with your DP but he will be alone on the bike ride.

I think it's nothing to do with the bike seat at all but a build up of the whole situation.

She simply hoped he might take a bike seat off a bike to make things easier for her.

Don't you mean "She simply hoped he might take a bike seat off a bike to make things easier for her ddad"?

'What jumps out at me is that your Dad wanted to go on a bike ride and you are hopping smartly to attention.'

This.

And looking at your list of hurts inflicted by your dh's refusal to make up with your parents, you're berating HIM essentially for not sucking up what your parents have done - i.e. for not, I'm guessing, employing the modus operandi that you have been trained to employ with your parents (i.e. appease).

Your dh had to put an intolerable financial burden on himself and his family in order to appease your mother and I'm guessing this was the final straw for him.

Tbph, you're lucky he's still with you.
(I speak from some experience, btw, of being in a position not dissimilar to yours (no financial fuckery involved).

But her DH says the bike seat is a PITA to take off! OP has said she couldn't do it herself, therefore it's likely that this is the truth, since any woman worth her salt can wield a screwdriver/spanner.

Surely that's reasonable? A bike ride isn't exactly a necessary thing to do - it's a nice optional extra, and if someone is stressed/busy and taking off a seat is going to take time, it can be sacrificed to do umpteen other nice things - going to the park, for instance.

ALSO, I think if someone has asked not to be involved in an alcoholic, financially abusive person's life for very reasonable reasons, it's blurring those boundaries to ask them for this kind of favour. PIL need to stand on their own two feet and buy their own damn seat, and stop expecting OP and her DH to sort everything for them.

Yanvu. There is a massive dripping back story that supports your dh's position. You're not in the middle, he is and you put him second at every turn.

You are making the choice to spend Christmas with your toxic parents instead of your immediate family.

I wouldn't let someone with a drinking problem take my DS out in a bike either.

OP, having looked at your previous posts, you just keep saying the same thing over and over again and getting the same advice. What do you actually want from Mumsnet?

However many threads you make, nothing changes. You made three in one day, and still the advice was the same. I think you need more help than a message board can offer.

I'm sorry but I'm firmly on your DP side. He works hard to support you and your children, your parents screwed him over financially, and now your parents want to use the bike seat he bought to have fun with his son, and you expect him to facilitate this when he should be working. You are adding insult to injury.

As you are too pregnant to work a screwdriver I am assuming you won't be fixing the bike seat to your bike? Are you even planning on going out on the bike ride, or are you planning on ignoring your DP quite reasonable wishes that your children are not left alone with your alcoholic father and/or your narc mother?

If this was a father allowing his children to spend time unsupervised with his parents in this situation and expecting his wife to facilitate then people would be suggesting calls to social services by now.

Get a grip. Your DP is trying to protect your children, stop undermining him. Take your children to see you parents, fine, but don't leave your children alone with them, or allow them to take them off.

The more of your threads I read, the more baffled I am that your DH has stayed with you. You seem totally in thrall to your parents and hell bent on sacrificing your marriage to appease them.

And this is the skewed version that you're presenting to make him seem like the bad guy! The reality is presumably even more clear cut...

Having seen what your parents are like in your words on that other thread posted, they are toxic and you should be protecting your DCs from that. Rightly never leave them with them!

I have a toxic SMIL who we keep at arms length and is only allowed to see DD with us their and ends up being once a month or so where as FIL sees her weekly. They cannot have DD one their own or overnight as SMIL is likely to drip poison about MIL and BIL and possibly even us just as she did to DH when he was young.

You really need to protect your kids first. You know DF is and alcoholic and DM is manipulative and emotionally blackmailed you regularly.

They are the cause.

Op having read your other thread I have to say I think you should go nc with your parents they sound awful.

It hurts so much to face the fact that we have parent(s) who are actively harmful / dont fit in the norm of parents who love you and want to support you. But you cant blame your DP for that. I agree with a pp that if the roles were reversed and you were posting even just the watered down facts you've posted here you'd be told 'you dont have an in-law problem you have a dp problem'. He has every reason to want nothing to do with them ever again & it clearly hurts him that you do. They have hurt your family & shown no remorse.

He's been really clear that because of their actions he's not prepared to have them in his life at all. That is all on them. You either have have to accept that or leave. You cant keep being angry with him for sticking to what he said. He has every reason to feel like this.

The easiest thing in this situation is to say to your dad, that a bike ride is difficult as the bike is not home and the seat is really difficult to get off. That is the truth

You are stressing about it because as others have said you have jumped to attention to your father's wish. They can still have a lovely day without a bike ride and you will keep the peace at home.

What jumps out at me is that your Dad wanted to go on a bike ride and you are hopping smartly to attention

Can you not see this? The easiest thing would have been to just say bike ride not possible let's do something else.

Why is it SO VERY important to you that your dad gets what he wants? Regardless of the tension it causes you. If the dynamic continues you have to look at the part you play in it. You are not a victim of your DH and parents. You are just as complicit by not keeping clearer boundaries and expecting your DH to jump to it. I would feel betrayed by you if I were your DH given the backstory.

You now have children. Your husband and your children are your primary family members. Since becoming parents yourselves, your parents and any siblings are you secondary family members. Your children and your husband therefore must come first.

The agitation that you are feeling is because your parents are dragging you backwards expecting you to still be part of the primary family unit, which you are not. Your husband quite rightly is resisting this.

Considering how they have treated you and your husband, it is understandable he has chosen to cut contact with them. That he is happy for you and your children to have a relationship with them shows him to be a mature and caring adult. You cannot expect anymore. It isn't your husband, who is disrespecting you. He is giving you the utmost respect and care.

You are disrespecting yourself and allowing your parents to disrespect you and your husband and by extension, your children. As you are choosing to maintain a relationship with your parents, you also need to tell them, your dh will not remove it for them. Don't go over there and take it off. Those are the actions of a child, trying to comply to mummy and daddy's unreasonable demands.

If you do not like this status quo, then it is time to look at your role and how you are setting yourself up to be disrespected and mistreated. I see nothing bad coming from your husband.

For a start off, I'd be having both christmases without your parents.

OP, your threads make me so sad. You seem to be so in thrall to your toxic parents that you can't see the wood for the trees. They have actively hurt your family - that's you, your DP and your DS - and continue to do so, and you continue to let them. I do understand that it's very hard to walk away from emotionally abusive relationships but in your case I don't even think that you're willing to acknowledge that your parents are bad news and that's what's so worrying.

This WILL tear your relationship with your DP apart and at this point it time it seems like you'd side with your parents. Which is just awful.

Your DP wants nothing to do with your parents. Ever. And given what's happened, that's fair enough. He's also not being unreasonable to not want your (alcoholic) father to take your DS for a bike ride. I wouldn't want that either, and I'm surprised that you do.

Oh OP, I do hope you find a way to see your parents for what they really are, and limit or cut off contact, and focus on the happiness and wellbeing of your own family/

Ok I will post some clarification on here re what's happened if anyone can follow.

• DP and parents involved in business : DP owner, parents first employees (transitioned into management)
• business was doing well, expanding etc then it went bad, "unexpected" (apparently) tax bill, production flow, communication issues between DP and parents (DDad ran the production DM managed office, deliveries and stock).
• DP got rid of DM as they couldn't work together and he thought it would help in business and she demanded severance which she got
• business still went under and DP as owner took it upon himself to repay debts

I have had a good think about it all since my last threads last year and here's how I see it and what I think people did wrong and right (again my perspective).

• DP thought my parents were a lot more experienced than they actually were, he put them in charge of a functioning factory with no training whatsoever
• parents let it go to their head , DM thought she was more than she was
• BOTH parties worked EXTREMELY hard there is no question there
• DP didn't want any decisions/changes being made without his approval (obv) but was out of the factory 80% of the time and often when things HAD to be finished/produced then and there and decisions had to be made it was impossible to contact him as he'd be in meetings etc my DPs would then make the decisions and be blamed for it if it went wrong or leave it until DP came back to be then put under pressure and guilted about not meeting deadline
• DDad took liberties and would sometimes nip out of the workplace to sort stuff (e,g, had workmen in the house so would nip out to give them further instructions etc - could be an hour at a time)
• DM was v detail oriented and would be on the back of anyone seeing to not pull their weight in corresponding office (head office) if she noticed that people weren't replying to or ignoring her emails, especially when it came to chasing overdue stock orders she placed several weeks earlier as they would often not send them off. She would go about it a bit too harshly.
• DP would put pressure on certain deadlines and get my parents to work overtime at no extra money, often by making them feel guilty
• parents thought they knew more about running a factory than they actually did and would often clash with DP about how things should be done/changed
• DP barely paid minimum wage for overtime yet expected employees to jump at the chance to give up their Sunday's to come into work as he was building the business "for everyone" and they should see that and be committed
• there were often backed up with orders they couldn't keep up with
• DM would leave tons of missed calls on DPs mobile if she couldn't get a hold of him and would get overwhelmed with her job load and sometimes rant
• DDad had drinking issues
• I think DP was a bit of a 'corporate minded boss' IYKWIM whereas they ran a small business

• DP blamed everything on my parents as he said he listened to their advice and suggestions and they were wrong
• he said if they listened to him it would be flourishing
• he blames DM for taking the money as we were struggling at the time (she didn't know and no one told her)

• Parents feel he wasn't cut out to run a factory as there were too many things that were overlooked by him or put on the back burner
• they say he was expecting too much of workforce
• they say he wasn't fair to employees

DM is still furious with his treatment of her and that he let her go.

• DP took on most of the debt.
• Parents took on 10K worth of debt that the business owed to one of the companies as DP said he will have nothing to do with that one as he felt it was DDads fault as he brought that company in as a supplier and he liaised with them , DP won't acknowledge the fact they've taken it on as he says that's down to them (which I find confusing as he's expecting them to take some sort of responsibility so surely that's a step in the right direction?)

My DM is toxic yes, I am aware of that, I'm working on boundaries and limits as I've mentioned before.
My DDad has an issue with alcohol, I am aware of that also and also trying to tackle that - he does not drink around me or DS and never has. But I know he drinks.

DP confuses me when it comes to money. He avoids conversations about a joint account for all our incomes. He can find X amount of money to fix his car but can put X extra into the bathroom so we can get a new radiator/towel rack. He seems to pick and choose what we can and can't afford. And I have no insight into his finances even though he says he's open about the.

Is this the most messed up thing or what?

@brassbrass and other posters who mentioned this - my point wasn't that my DDad MUST be able to take DS for a bike ride AT ALL COSTS. We can do something else and we are. The point is that I felt DP was being petty about me asking him for a bit of help.

Also to point out to some of the posters - DP doesn't have an issue with my DDad taking DS on a bike ride so don't push the alcohol part into this (read my last reply for clarification). DP just didn't want to help me take the bike seat off.

YABU. You are asking him to take time out of his working day to do something for you dad who he has asked no two be involved with.

You've said they slag him off saying he is unreasonable, why should he do them any favours?

Reading your update, Im shocked you want your DS around your parents.

Your dh's attitude to money sounds worrying - another issue.

Your account of things does sound as if there was fault on all sides. But in your list you are very critical of your dh, but use minimising language about your parents - your father used to 'nip out', your mother was 'a bit too harsh' and you paint it as a virtue by saying she was 'detail minded'.

How much (proportional to salary - you don't have to give a figure) severance did your mother get? And why would they expect overtime paying in management positions?

you're still in denial though aren't you?

Your DP has made it clear he doesn't want anything to do with them. Why ask him to get involved with the bike seat. It isn't just a bike seat. It's the fact that he will be working while your parents are out with his children. You can't seem to fathom why that would get his back up and why he might say I don't want to put myself out for them.

You are causing the issue here. Either deal with the bike seat yourself (insert any other future issue here) OR make other plans. But DON'T ask your DP to get involved where your parents are concerned.

You're definitely minimising your DPs in that update as you're annoyed with DH that he's putting you in a difficult position.

The reason you're in a difficult position is that you're fence sitting. You have to put your DH and DCs first in this case.

Your DP has every right to want to cut off your parents. To be honest I don't understand why you don't do the same. They sank his company and when your DP tried to get rid, demanded a redundancy! What kind of idiocy is that?

" DP thought my parents were a lot more experienced than they actually were, he put them in charge of a functioning factory with no training whatsoever"

However did that come about & why did they take on jobs that they knew they couldn't do-presumably giving up jobs that they could do?

My DM got a weeks worth of salary for every year worked I believe - or whatever the guidelines are.

And just to clarify my DDad never asked for any redundancy. My DM did, she was let go 6 months prior.

@diddl that's quite complicated, my DDad was self employed (handy man? Idk what the term is) when him and DP met. But was qualified in the relevant profession/industry.
Started with DP asking him to make a sample product and went on from there offered him a full time position - minimum wage full time as first and only employee. Over time as more people were employed my DDad went up in rank training newcomers, managing etc.