AIBU to not pay for DD's skin removal surgery?

[MrsParkinson]

Hi Mumsnet,

I am looking for unbiased opinions here.

A bit of a backstory. My daughter is 19 and has always been overweight from about 8, she used to sneak a lot of food and I did everything to stop that, things did improve, but at around 11, she just kept putting on weight until she was 18 really and ended up at 20 st, she began slimming world and I am really proud of her for getting to an ideal weight in these last couple of years (almost 20).

She is currently on a gap year so does work. I admit she definitely doesn't waste her money by any means, it's just unfortunate she is in a min wage job - she plans on going to uni next year.

I am definitely not rich or well off, I have to work full time and although on 40k a year, it isn't lots. I have 2 other DC at uni too, so they need some financial help.

She has been recently receiving psychological help and before getting this, admitted she overate, etc. but since having therapy has become a bit "I was only a child and I'm sad you let me get fat" and just stuff along those line, when really that's unfair and a bit passing the blame. She got heaviest when she was a teenager, I couldn't control that.

We recently spoke about her loose skin, something she brought up with me. I do appreciate it's hard for her, she is a young adult and obviously it isn't something she wants. She has spoken to the GP who says due to it not causing any health issues, there is nothing the NHS can do, which is fair enough.

She has asked if she can 'borrow' the money. The thing is, she has no way of paying this back... She is on 10k a year and plans on going to uni next year, so she just won't be able to.

There is some money put away for me that's from my husband, definitely not a lot, but is a financial aide for me. There is enough to cover the cost, but I am then left with no financial security and I do need that. Especially when she just can't pay anything back.

I suppose I'm looking for advice on weather I am being unreasonable for not paying for the surgery?

Thank you for your time if you reply.

I suspect that the skin removal will not solve her unhappiness. If you have 3 children and 1 has severe problems and the other 2 don't then surely that is nature rather than nurture?

She has had counselling. She blames you. Does not take responsibility herself? Not being accountable is serious. Does she blame you for other stuff aswell. Or do you think this blame is valid?

It WAS your fault really OP if the weight she put on slowly as a child was not due to underlying health issues.

She was 8 when the cycle started....you fed her...you bought food.

That's your responsibility...she was a child....the pattern starts young and continues.

this is utter crap. I have 3 children. 2 are slim - just like me and dh. one is not. It is NOT my fault, it isn't her fault - it isn't anyone's fault - thinking in terms of fault about weight is just self-defeating and stupid. Just like telling me I deserve a gold star because 2 of my kids are slim would be thick. Really distressed at how many posters are saying "it was your fault OP you loser bad mother" - they clearly have never been in this position. no one wants to have an overweight child. The child doesn't want to be overweight either. This thread is depressing.

OP, I think your dd could wait for the skin removal stuff. I would be more inclined to pay for therapy for her to talk through any issues she has about her weight/childhood.

Pallisers what are you doing to help your overweight DC lose weight?

YANBU. No adult is responsible for paying for another adult's surgery. Personally, I'd hesitate to do so for a non-medical procedure, in case there was a complication. I simply couldn't live with myself.

Your daughter sounds like a lovely person, and in spite of early struggles it sounds like you raised her to overcome any obstacles in her way. You are right to be proud of her.

I'm sorry that conversations between you about these childhood issues continue to be fraught. It may not help, but I'd like to share a piece of advice that I received during my own childhood: You don't have to be wrong to say you're sorry.

I find your posts very 'hard' OP. Your DD is a young woman about to embark on the world of dating and relationships. No doubt this has been her motivation to achieve success in this amazing weight loss.

I also do not doubt she is way behind her peers because of the previous obesity and self consciousness about her body.

Having finally achieved this loss, she will probably feel too embarrassed of her body to get close to anyone .
Loose skin cannot be 'exercised' off. !
She has no choice because of the NHS shocking attitude to helping those who want to deal with obesity.

They are more than happy to spend literally BILLIONS treating the results of obesity such as type 2 diabetes and it's subsequent co-morbidities. Not to mention knee replacements and heart disease. But fgs can't they join the dots and see that by not offering skin removal surgery to those who reach a healthy weight and SAVE the NHS a fortune in future costs, is a false economy that could very easily lead to the kind of depression and despair that will lead to a weight regain. ?

You can afford it OP . My question is How can you NOT ?
If it's just about the price then look at Nordic Bariatric in Latvia and New Leaf in Czech Republic. Both have excellent reputations, are in the EU so additional insurance can be purchased to cover any unlikely complications. A quarter of the UK price.

Get your daughter to go in the web. Get on to forums such as Bariatric U.K. and do some serious research into the best Eastern European surgeons/clinics.
My sister had hers done in Latvia. It was a spectacular clinic and exemplary care with no complications. Her life , happiness and self confidence has improved beyond all recognition. Full body lift. £8k.
Or is it that you don't actually WANT to help ? In that case just tell her so she knows not to get her hopes up.

So - how long has she been at her ideal weight, 6 months or thereabouts?
I think it would be wise to wait a bit longer before she has the skin reduction anyway, partly because of the elasticity thing, but also because of the risks of her "relapsing" and putting weight back on. Once the skin has been reduced, she won't have so much elasticity left in what is there, so it will make even more of a mess if she falls into a yo-yo dieting/overeating trap.

I understand your reluctance to part with your safety net - as a widow, you have to take care of your resources especially as you never know what could happen to you as well (my father is like this too).

But I think if you could offer to pay 50%, if she saves up the other 50%. This will have a two-fold benefit: you will be helping her out but as it will take a while for her to save the other 50%, it will give a better idea of how well her weight loss is going to "stick" .

As for it being "your fault" that she is overweight, well no. I don't think it is. You provided food for ALL the family - it's not your fault that she secretly took more than she should have done. I doubt it's exactly her "fault" either - but it was her doing. You didn't force feed her.
You could maybe have done more to help her stop over-eating - but not without having a negative impact on the rest of the family, who would then quite possibly have resented her bitterly. You can't win over this - there is literally no right answer because whatever you did/didn't do, SOMEONE would have come off worst over it. As it stands, it's your 20yo - and really solid kudos to her for managing to turn it around and lose so much weight! - but now the best help you can give her is to help her maintain her self-confidence by telling her you'll match her savings so she can get the surgery. That way, she's still "doing it for herself" but she'll get there twice as fast, with your help.

Of course it's your fault and it's your fault for telling your other dc too - seems like you are trying to make her the villain here to minimize your own role - no child becomes 11 stones overweight without their parents being responsible in one way or another. Have your other kids been tested? Seemingly normal or underweight siblings of overweight kids have their own issues with food. I was always overweight as a child for ex as mum's verbal abuse caused me to go to food as comfort, my slim sister was anorexic, and normal weight brothers overreat with one having high blood pressure and the other pre-diabetes. I'm probably the healthiest one of the bunch as I lost the weight when I moved out and kept up the healthy eating.

I was under the impression that most people who lose a load of weight eventually put it all back on. This may not happen to your daughter, but why not wait 3 years to see if the weight goes back on? You cannot afford to waste thousands.

11 stone overweight isn't someone taking the odd snack too many - it takes a lot of overeating over a long period of time to get there. I don't think blame is helpful in talking about weight gain but neither is denial. She gained a huge amount of weight as a child under your care, as her parent you had a duty of care to her. I don't agree with the idea that your other DC are a healthy weight therefore it must be nature - there will have been reasons for her overeating, perhaps she's had emotional needs that weren't being met or some such but if an 8 year old is stealing and hoarding food, all isn't well in their world.

In saying that, I don't think the issue of paying for surgery is about blame either - it matters not where fault lies for her weight gain. Do you want to pay for the surgery and can you afford it. If the answer to either of those questions is no (and it sounds like you neither want or can easily afford to) then don't do it. Do think about how you can support your DD with your decision and try to avoid more blame but ultimately you're both adults now and she will find a way through with or without you.

I do think it's wise for her to wait until her weight truly settles before going for surgery, her skin may settle back better after time and surgery too quickly could hamper the natural healing process.

First of all, I'm so sorry for your loss -

If the loose skin is affecting your daughter's emotional wellbeing, then she may be able to get help on the NHS. Get her to see another GP within the practice and be very frank about how this is affecting her.
If after this, there is still no help available, then help her.
All children are different - she clearly had emotional issues which led to her overeating. She has now lost the weight - (no mean feat) and is keeping fit and working f/t too. If you don't want to pay for the [total cost] of the surgery (if the NHS really can't help), then pay half?
I also think it would be nice if her siblings had some empathy.

People are being very unreasonable towards you OP. When someone overeats (and I say that as someone who has, her entire life, was extremely obese, but has now lost the weight), they make a conscious decision to put every mouthful of food into their body. Often it feels like we have no control, but the fact is we still, at some deep level, are choosing to do it. For whatever reason..loneliness, boredom, emotional pain. Until we recognise that this is what we are doing it's easy to blame everyone else because it's safer. It doesn't require us to acknowledge or really address anything, because it's not our fault, right? As someone else said, nothing anyone could have done could have stopped her (not OP's daughter, but poster) from eating too much as a child, she would always have found a way. Me too. I feel for your daughter OP, I really do. I might have lost weight, but I haven't been left with a normal body, and sometimes that really gets me down, so I can understand how she is feeling. But, if she is still wholly and only blaming you, and not accepting any responsibility for where she got to, then she might have lost weight, but she is still in a very unhealthy place. OP, you should do everything possible to love your daughter with your whole heart, but I suggest that you seek medical and psychological advice before you pay for her surgery (however/whatever extent you do that to) because I don't believe that this will be the end of your daughter problems.

If the loose skin is affecting your daughter's emotional wellbeing, then she may be able to get help on the NHS

very unlikely

here's an example of an NHS policy (just part of it, the rest is BMI limits etc)

^Have severe functional problems which should include at least one of the
following:
 Severe difficulties with daily living (i.e. walking, dressing and ambulatory
restrictions) which has been formally assessed.
 Documented record of recurrent intertrigo beneath the skin folds that recurs or
fails to respond despite appropriate medical therapy for at least six months.
 Poorly-fitting stoma bags.
 Surgery is required as part of an abdominal hernia correction or other
abdominal wall surgery.^

I was a middle child and severely overweight. I ate the same as my siblings the only difference was I was probably less active because I have dyspraxia. My mum took me to a doctor who just said give her less food. My mum took my to weight watchers and tried to help me but nothing worked. As an adult the weight continued to pile on. I was 24 stone and going to the gym 5 days a week!
I did a monitored calorie reduction plan at my docs and I only started to lose weight once I hit 1100 calories a day.
I had bariatric surgery 5 years ago and lost ten stone. I still struggle to keep my calories down to 1200 a day to not put on weight. Do I have loose skin, yes, do I blame my mum no. I do feel that there should be something the NHS can do once you have kept the weight off for a length of time. I would have to be a normal weight for three years to be considered but the excess skin keeps me in the obese range. I might consider getting a loan for it later. I am not comfortable with the blame being placed on the parent here. Sometimes it is not as simple as too much food and not enough exercise or letting your child eat too much.

I'm really confused by people saying 'wait 6 months' 'wait 3 years' 'do counselling' - why make this kid jump through more hoops to prove she is entitled to a surgery she clearly has worked hard to prepare for (i.e. Massive weight loss on her own) - all sounds a bit overwhelming to me reading this thread and i am not 20 years old needing a loose skin surgery (surgeries?) loose skin of that degree won't go away. And if she is stuck looking at it for another 3 years she will could well become isolated and depressed then yes gain the weight back. I strongly disagree with people saying about counselling - maybe as an addition to her issues with the mother she has approached for help but not for the loose skin - no amount of talking will make it go away. Feel really sorry for this poor girl whoever she is - sounds like she is up against it.

So our skin grows with us but doesn't shrink with us?
Weird isn't it??

In my opinion no if there is that much skin it won't shrink back - at least that is what I have seen with massive weight loss patients. Although when you say it how you said it and then look at the science of how no it doesn't shrink back it is a bit shit / unfair!

Neutrogena if you take skin past its elastic limit it won't shrink back

How long has the weoght been off?
How much did she lose?

I was over weight for much of my twenties. It took a few years after i lost the weight, but the majority of my stomach has gone back. And i had 2 kids. I am probably lucky.

But personally i would tell her i would pay for it, or some of it in a few years. Its easy to put the weight on, especially if its mental health related and it might (thats a might) improve on its own.

If the weight has been off a while andbits huge amounts, maybe it won't.

I think she should go back to the gp and say its affecting her mental health. Failing that if she kept the weight off for 2 years then I would pay half of it. That gives you both time to save up for it.

Also things need ti be consideres like how much time she will have to have off work. How is she going to organise that?

Are her employers likely to be ok with it etc.

I dont think its as simple as 'pay for it'.

You're being given a very hard time, OP. I used to be very devious around food when I was a teenager, there's not much my parents could have done.

I was always the biggest child, not fat just biggest.
This is not your blame to carry, and no you shouldn't fund.
I am sorry for your DD , but just getting rid of the skin won't FIX her life.

I think she should go back to the gp and say its affecting her mental health

because no-one else has ever thought of that......the NHS doesn't fund cosmetic procedures just because you say it's making you stressed.

Not sure why everyone seems to think it's your fault OP, any more than any other MH condition (if that's what overeating is). I have 3 children and find it impossible to restrict food for one (luckily for them my 3 are all naturally skinny).

I don't think you should lend or give more than you feel you can afford. If you feel you can afford 5k or 10k then give/lend it, if not, don't. You could offer for her to stay rent free with you for as long as she needs to save money etc - I think I'd be more inclined to offer that if I felt I couldn't afford something. That way you are offering something useful that you can more comfortably afford. I know someone in a minimum wage job who has saved enough for a deposit for a 3 bed house in early 20's by living at home. Worked extremely hard for it - but did it.