Male beauticians and waxing!!

[Emboo19]

This is based on a friends experience, not mine and it's not so much a AIBU. But we've been discussing it at length and I'm interested in others thoughts.
So would you be ok with a male beautician doing intimate waxing? Would it depend on quite how intimate, so a bikini wax would be ok, but a all off not so much?

I'm not actually sure myself. A part of me thinks it's no different to a male doctor or nurse and I'd be fine with that. Definitely wouldn't have a problem with any other beauty treatments being done by a man, but waxing that invloves no underwear, I'm not sure!!

I don't know- I have always felt better smooth. It really bugs me to have excess hair anywhere but my head. Why is it anti-feminist to remove pubic hair but not underarm hair? I am as far from anti-feminist you can get, but I remove pubic hair and I support women's right to choose whether or not to do so.

I suppose it is because removing underarm hair is not a fashion that is derived from porn.

I suppose it is because removing underarm hair is not a fashion that is derived from porn

Firstly, all women in porn have removed their underarm hair.

Secondly, porn also reflects changes in trends. If you watch 70s and 80s porn (which I don't, I hasten to add), the women will nearly always have pubic hair. The porn and sex industry has been around for a long time and it is only in recent years that it has moved towards the trend of removing all or nearly all pubic hair. If fashion changes, it will probably go back.

Why is it anti-feminist to remove pubic hair but not underarm hair?

I always thought that (stereotypically) it was anti-feminist to remove any body hair. We shave our legs /armpits / vulvas for no reason other than men society expects it of women. (See what's their face on Loose Women www.independent.co.uk/voices/womans-hour-india-willoughby-leg-shaving-controversy-the-dorchester-feminist-female-appearance-shave-a7456421.html )

But not awesome on your head?

My head isn't an erogenous zone, I don't have sex with my head. I don't like my head licked - I've never had my head shaved to know if it feels more sensitive and enjoyable with the hair removed, but I can't say the thought appeals.

I don't like the feeling of wiping drops of urine from my pubes when I pee, or wiping menstrual blood or vaginal discharge from there either

I don't like the feeling of my pubic hair accidentally sticking to a pantliner when I whip it off (I am clumsy as hell and somehow managed to do this on an alarmingly regular basis)

I decided to give a Brazilian a whirl and I absolutely bloody loved how it felt.

Different strokes for different folks, innit

Firstly, all women in porn have removed their underarm hair.

Yes but the fashion to remove underarm hair did not derive from porn.

Secondly, porn also reflects changes in trends. If you watch 70s and 80s porn (which I don't, I hasten to add), the women will nearly always have pubic hair. The porn and sex industry has been around for a long time and it is only in recent years that it has moved towards the trend of removing all or nearly all pubic hair. If fashion changes, it will probably go back.

I have seen 80s porn (I am in my 50s) and women often did remove pubic hair. The trend started in the general public well after it was in porn so I don't think porn is reflecting fashion- it's the other way around.

I don't like the feeling of wiping drops of urine from my pubes when I pee, or wiping menstrual blood or vaginal discharge from there either

Yeah, this is part of it for me too. But it genuinely is up to each woman to decide what to do.

I should point out that I hate it when men expect hair to be removed- it should be the woman's choice. I absolutely do not do it for a man.

don't know- I have always felt better smooth. It really bugs me to have excess hair anywhere but my head. Why is it anti-feminist to remove pubic hair but not underarm hair? I am as far from anti-feminist you can get, but I remove pubic hair and I support women's right to choose whether or not to do so.

I don't think it's feminist remove any hair, porn or no porn it's still about policing women's looks. That doesn't mean I don't remove hair, I do. I just don't pretend I made it all up out of thin air and it's nothing to do with outside influence. Feminism is for discussing why we have certain pressures not for pretending they don't exist and it's all free choice. I don't think removing hair or doing any of the things hat help you feel comfortable in society mostly are "anti" feminist, and you can be a feminist and still do those things. But they aren't feminist decisions (imo).

I think most feminists gravitate toward the public thing as there is a porn element and the porn element is about objectivication (seeing the PIV better, camera angles etc) and about porn's obsession with "barely legal". You can't minimise that. Especially when that's all tied up with a large amount of pain and degradation of having a stranger stare up your foof or wax your crack. You have to question why women subject themselves to it.

It is impossible to deny a correlation between the increased availability of porn and the increased number of women removing their pubic hair. I believe there is also causation, but others disagree. But the point I. Ade earlier about compulsory shaving in the labour ward pertains.

I think that underarm hair is arguably different. Apart from anything else, there is a practical reason, particularly in the days before reliable deodorants..

Although, Bertrand men do not remove armpit hair and there is certainly no evidence that hair removal stops sweating. It became the fashion in the early 20th century because women were suddenly told that it was undesirable to have underarm hair.

I agree with you, Cats that beauty standards are certainly dictated by society and there are problems with that. I don't think that waxing my bikini line is a feminist decision, definitely not. But I have my own ideas of what I think looks nice and what feels nice for me (which undoubtedly are influenced by patriarchy). I believe that people who prefer to be hair-free should be allowed to do that.

And (sorry, graphic details) I still don't understand how people get urine or blood on their pubic hair. I can understand, I suppose, why you might want to get rid of the hair around the vulva for cleanliness- but the whole mons bald in case of blood or urine splashes?

I think that underarm hair is arguably different. Apart from anything else, there is a practical reason, particularly in the days before reliable deodorants

I'm going to argue Men don't (generally) shave their armpits, yet women do. There is not any particular difference between the sexes in that area (as far as I know) so I am a little suspicious as to why it is only expected of women.

And (sorry, graphic details) I still don't understand how people get urine or blood on their pubic hair

Really? When I used sanitary towels as a teenager, it would be matted together with blood and it would feel disgusting. Maybe my hair grows in an odd pattern, but I have hair all over my pubic area, including around the areas where blood and urine leave the body. (Sorry too for graphic detail).

But for me feminism (and hair removal!) is all about thinking about and, if possible understanding why we as women do things, and making conscious decisions about whether or not to carry on doing them. The personal is political.

But for me feminism (and hair removal!) is all about thinking about and, if possible understanding why we as women do things, and making conscious decisions about whether or not to carry on doing them. The personal is political

Oh believe me, I do think about it. Probably too much. Yet I still remove hair. What is wrong with me?

And (sorry, graphic details) I still don't understand how people get urine or blood on their pubic hair. I can understand, I suppose, why you might want to get rid of the hair around the vulva for cleanliness- but the whole mons bald in case of blood or urine splashes?

Of course I don't get urine or blood on my mons. I don't know how you avoid getting any blood or urine on the hair on your labia majora though? You must have quite a strong aim when you pee.

I like the feeling of a smooth undercarriage. A Brazilian removes all the hair from around the vulva.

The mons is secondary for me - I got that removed with a standard bikini wax (just nudge down the top of the knickers, I wasn't very hairy) - but the difference with a Brazilian / Hollywood is that it gets everything off the underneath.

agree with you, Cats that beauty standards are certainly dictated by society and there are problems with that. I don't think that waxing my bikini line is a feminist decision, definitely not. But I have my own ideas of what I think looks nice and what feels nice for me (which undoubtedly are influenced by patriarchy). I believe that people who prefer to be hair-free should be allowed to do that

I don't disagree with any of that

I trim only and have never met a man who's even commented, much less stated a preference for the bald smooth look.

I only realised about a year ago that pubic hair in some women grows beyond the front (mons). Mine only grows there. It explained a comment from a midwife when my first child was born about how I didnt need to have shaved down below for a c section, but not do the actual bit they needed.

PaintingByNumbers I am jealous of your hair growth pattern.

I was just a bit embarrassed by my lack of knowledge! And it explained why the midwife seemed to be implying I was a bit thick :)

Really paintingbynumbers?
I've never heard of that? Tell me if it's tmi but is it completely bald or just very fine like arm hair for example and where does it stop? I'm guessing you have none around the bum then?

Haha dont make me feel more of a freak! It just doesnt grow at all on the labia or anywhere further down. There might be really fine downy hair but I cant see it if there is.

Its definitely not like fine arm hair. Its like my upper legs possibly, they look hairless but perhaps have that really really super fine downy hair, although I cant see it

@PaintingByNumbers I've had three c-sections and the only part of me they shaved was at the top of the triangle (pubic mound). They don't shave anything else and certainly not around the labia so not sure whether your midwife's info came from????