Would you move to America if you were me?

[BenDuck]

DP is from the US and we have talked for a while about going to live there (East coast) and the conversations are now getting more serious, he is starting to look for jobs etc. I'm still feeling really conflicted though. Part of me wants to, mostly because I fucking HATE brexit and like to be away from it all but also because we would be able to afford a really lovely house there. There is loads of stuff that bothers me though- having to drive everywhere, lower food standards, Trump.
I also worry about my position legally. I'm currently a SAHM but earn a little doing evening work (that I wouldn't be able to do there) so would be v reliant on DH. Esp. as would be hard to get a working visa. I worry about what would happen were we to divorce- would I be stuck there unable to bring DC back to UK (they have dual citizenship)?
Anyone been in a similar boat???

Also, my friend moved there and had a baby with her husband. They divorced and he refuses to allow the child to leave their State, let alone their country. Therefore until her child is 21, she can NEVER EVER return to the UK even for a visit, without leaving him behind

America is a nice place for a holiday but I'd rather dig my eye out with a spoon than actually live there. No NHS equivalent, no requirement for employers to give paid holidays, almost no maternity leave at all, people carrying guns, terrible public transport ... and I could go on. I love travelling there but I wouldn't ever live there.

There's also no guarantee you'd get a permit to work there, surely?

If her DH is a US citizen, her visa would include the right to work, same as a UK spouse visa. Her visa would also trigger the production of a green card (either temporary or permanent) when it is activated at the border.

PollyFlint--a work permit shouldn't be a problem if she is coming as the spouse of a US citizen, might take some (many) weeks to be issued the appropriate paperwork and you have to cough up a chunk of change to be allowed to immigrate, but there's no legal reason why she shouldn't get her greencard.

relocating away from friends and family is very serious when you have kids. What someone said above about an ex spouse not even being allowed to move out of state, much less out of country, with the kids is true--the law is different from one state to the next, but some definitely forbid one parent from moving the kids far away from the other parent, and the US is a huge country. You could find yourself unable to follow a job opportunity or pursue a new relationship .... hopefully that problem would never arise, but you are wise to consider it!

You can have a nice standard of living if you have nicely-paid professional jobs. It's when you start falling through the cracks that things go wrong.

We just moved to London after living two years in California. I'm Australian and husband is British. I would never ever move back there to raise a family, healthcare in particular is a nightmare, even with the best insurance. The gun culture is very real and just unbelievable. There are many reasons why I am grateful to not be living there any more. Beautiful country though, nice for a holiday.

No, never. Because you say this:

I would definitely want to move back were we to separate

You wouldn't be able to. You might not even be allowed to take them out of the state you live in without his permission, depending on where you lived.

If your outlook was, I love the idea of living in the States, I can see us always making our home there, I want to be an American - then yes. Because were the worst to happen then presumably you'd be able to get your head around staying there permanently even if you split.

If you don't think that's what you'd want - no way would I ever take the risk of moving. It's not just you splitting up - if he's having a fine time after a year and is definite about wanting to stay permanently and you hate it - you'd still be stuck. You couldn't come home with the kids without him agreeing.

SAHM makes this even more of a leap for you, with more risk, less safety net.

So - no. Don't.

It is possible to move children from one country to another after a divorce. It takes good lawyers, time & money, but it can be done. the NRP can sign permission for it to happen, or it can go to court if the parents don't agree.

It isn't even so much to do with the nationality of the parents, but the best interests of the children. That is affected by where they usually live, who cares for them, earning potential of parents, happiness & support of parents and lots of things.

I do know people, in real life, who managed to move countries with a child after a divorce. But it took a lot of patience.

There is the assumption being made that the DH would not be OK with her moving back to the UK after a hypothetical divorce. If no one contests it, it's not that difficult.

I know of plenty of US divorcees who have brought their DC to the USA post-split -- it's not uncommon and the paperwork needed depends on how much trouble their ex-partner wishes to throw their way.

Check some of the US to UK visa forums on places like UK Yankee and Britishexpats.com; that will give a fairly accurate idea of what's involved.

In fairness to the US and the childcare thing...

If DH and I split up, I would still need his consent to renew my daughters' US passports. I have been at the US embassy in the passport queue in London with a mum screaming that her ex had abandoned them and she didn't know how to contact him but she wasn't able to renew. So, I think there is some question whenever you move abroad and have a child with a person from another country how the custody arrangements would play out.

I have heard that it's worse if you end up in the US but there was that highly publicised case last year whether the children were granted custody to the father and the mother stayed in California.

It's hard to know how much of this is anecdotal.

The issue for the OP is once her American DH gets back home - I think she needs to assume it's for good.

OP - the question may be more whether you think you can convince your DH to stay in the UK or if he's already booked his 'non refundable return ticket' so to speak.

in his head, that is....

This is such a difficult question. I have lots of friends who married partners of a different nationality and they've all struggled with it, unless they totally feel they get something personally, themselves, out of being in their partners' country. I'd want to live in the UK anyway but I am very much in the minority amongst my friends whose relationships have taken them to South America, Russia, Germany etc.

That's all really interesting and helpful. My DH is desperate to go back. He has lived out of the US for 15 yrs now and wants to go home. To answer a few posters, yes I always said I would be willing to move and I don't want to renege on that, but I underestimated how differently I would feel about it once DC were in the picture. To mitigate some of the risk re separation/custody I wonder if it would be possible to draw up some sort of post-nup where DH agreed that in the event of separation he would grant permission for me to return home with DC. I have no idea whether that would stand up or not

The mixed citizenship thing is really hard. I have major misgivings about living in the US but equally it seems unfair that DH should have to spend his life out of his home country

... I underestimated how differently I would feel about it once DC were in the picture.

^^Yes. It was one thing when it was just the two of us, living wherever, with whatever we could fit into our baggage allowance. Now that we have DC, the stakes have changed, and so have our feelings.

We did a lot of back-and-forth early in our relationship, which allowed us to get a very good idea of what we liked and didn't like in each place. It was expensive and stressful, and I think it would be far too great of a strain to place on our family now. Our move back to the US last year had a tone of finality about it. DH seems OK with that for the moment, which is very different to how he felt last time we lived out here -- but that was prior to the DC.

I miss the UK terribly, but DH and I both agree that we have it far, far easier here with our family around.

The children being dual nationality is the No1 reason I refused to go. I knew I'd be stuck there in the event of a separation as he'd not let them go home with me.

This was the correct move, as it turned out.

I am American, DH is British and we live in the UK. I never want to go back, if I'm honest. We go back every summer to see family, and I miss them terribly, but life is so much easier in the UK. I love the DC's small state school, love our village, love that we don't have to drive everywhere for everything. Also wouldn't be happy with the gun culture in the US (and it is prevalent, even if you can't see it)...I would dread to have to ask about gun ownership just so my kids can have playmates at someone's house!
We could have a bigger house, I would get a hell of a lot more out of my degrees there, but none of that is compelling enough for me to consider moving back. DH was offered a US based job recently, and I said no immediately.
It is a fantastic country, but not for me any more.

I think you'd need to talk to a solicitor familiar with the Hague Convention and US law to see whether any kind of post-nup would hold up in court should the worst happen and your DH decide to renege on the agreement.
As has been said, it's not about you or him, it's about what's best for the children, and if it's decided that their best interests are to stay in the country they know best (assuming you'd been in the USA for a few years) then that's what would happen.

Another point to consider is how he might change when he gets back to the USA. This is not something I had factored in to my Aussie husband's situation - he was pretty independent and helpful in the UK, but once we got back to Australia, and into his mother's sphere, he suddenly reverted back to a more traditionally misogynistic type of manchild, which was both a shock and really fucking annoying. We've managed to mitigate most of it, but whenever he's been on a work conference for a few days, he still slips back into the whole "me man, you do wifework, me do PAID work, me more important" shit. Not for long but it still crops up!
So bear that in mind as well.

Have you visited his family in the States much? Does he change at all? Would you be looking to move near to his parents/family? Considerations.

BenDuck
How old are your kids again?

Another thing to bear in mind is that if you have a green card I believe you will be taxed on your worldwide income as if you were a US citizen. I would check into this and also what would happen in the event of an inheritance, if this is an issue for you. I think there is some tax free element as there would be in the UK but I don't know what it is tbh.

Like the second poster, you couldn't pay me to move to the US. I'm not very fond of the idea of living in the Middle East or deep in a tropical jungle either.

There was a poster in Relationships a couple of days ago who emigrated to Australia with her boyfriend, and now she was stuck at home, unable to work and he wouldn't share any money with her, so her life was just buying and cooking his meals and washing his clothes.

There are a million similar stories.

You could end up trapped out there, unable to work, reliant on him and hoping he doesn't leave you, because then you'd be single, unable to work, with the kids you can't bring to the UK nor can you leave the country.

The education system is pretty poor. If you go private it's often a religious school. In the red states, they're suspicious of atheists (amongst other things) but life in the blue states might be OK. Ish.

It's the inability to work that strikes me as the biggest risk. You might love America but one phonecall from your loving boyfriend could see you deported, one day he wakes up and decides he's not 'wasting' money on you anymore and you have nothing. People can turn mean. Especially when they think you cannot run.

I don't think we could ever move back to the UK for us personally it would be taking a gient leap backwards.

When I visit the UK now I feel so unsafe.

The gun culture has been mentioned a few times here, it really does depend on the state.

OP what state would you be looking at??

I would if I could work. It will be really important to make friends and I have found it easier at work than in baby/kids groups

Also if you are not wanting to deal with Brexit how are you going to manage living in a country that we socially and economically moving towards. If it is the right wing issue of Brexit or being isolated from other countries then America is far more so than the UK is and I believe will be after Brexit

Depends where I'd be moving to. NYC or Brooklyn? I'd give that a whirl for a couple of years. And then move back.

The Midwest? No chance.

The education system is pretty poor.

I'm sorry but this is a ridiculous statement. There is no one education system in the US. It can vary greatly from state to state and from district to district within a state. I live in a district where the state schools are outstanding and better than most of the private schools, only a few of which are religious schools.

Hello.
I moved over here nearly 4 years ago from the UK. I don't have kids, and my husband was British, but here's what I can tell you.

Yes, you would get a Green Card through marriage to a US citizen. If you divorce within 2 years you lose it though.

I think its healthy to think about what happens if you divorce. I also think its only fair on him to try living there, if only for a couple of years.

Yes, trump is awful. The nazis are coming out. There are guns. This is all true. And it is worrying. Depends where you live. Some parts of the states are very, very backwards but many (like California) are amazing.

Should you choose to become a US citizen and keep dual citizenship, you would get taxed in both countries.

I am happy being foreign. A British accent, especially in my line of work, gets you far. Lots of networking.

Let me know if there is anything else you'd like to know. Although I get homesick sometimes, you couldn't pay me to go back to London.

But he has lived out of the US for 15 years.... you are potentially about to leave the UK for ever which will be a lot longer than 15 years. And bring up children there.