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AIBU?

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Original poster

Man on the train

318 replies

HunterHearstHelmsley · 17/08/2017 15:46

I was travelling to work this morning on the train. All table seats and I like to sit in the aisle seat, I feel a bit trapped if I'm by the window. I had my handbag on my lap so the window seat was free.

A man got on and grunted at me and pointed at the seat. I tried to stand so I could get out and he could take the wondow seat. He said he was getting off in three stops so he'd sit in the aisle, I said so was I and tried to move out again. He was really insistent that I should sit by the window. After about a minutes debate and me saying that I just didn't want to sit in the window seat he shouted 'for fucks sake' and stormed off to another part of the train.

I didn't think I was being unreasonable at all. But starting to wonder a bit as the day goes on!

OP posts:
Ceto · 17/08/2017 16:52

I think its good etiquette on commuter trains to take the window seat if you are there first to make it easy for people to sit down in the aisle seat otherwise people have to specifically ask to get past you.

But that doesn't apply where the passenger in question has a good reason for wanting the aisle seat. If the passenger doesn't want to move, it's even better etiquette to accept that without making a fuss, and particularly without shouting "For fuck's sake" and stamping off.

TieGrr · 17/08/2017 16:53

Oh sorry, he is obviously an ignorant sexist twat who hates all woman kind....or maybe he just couldn't understand why the OP couldn't scooch over for 3 stops.

There's a middle ground between 'obviously wasn't listening' and 'is an ignorant sexist twat who hates all woman kind'.

I can understand him being irritated at the OP not moving over but that doesn't give him the right to demand her seat anyway. Like it or not, she was there first. His choice is to sit in the window seat or not, not tell her to move and then kick up a fuss when she won't.

chips4teaplease · 17/08/2017 16:53

Why should anyone move over just because you want the place they already have? The inconvenience of squeezing past someone would then be theirs, not yours, a double inconvenience when added to having been compelled to move from one seat to another. How 'entitled' must you be to think that is reasonable?

RhubardGin · 17/08/2017 16:54

OP, did you actually explain to the gentleman that the reason you didn't want to take the window seat was because of your anxiety?

I don't understand why you didn't just stand up and let him slide past, was he hovering over you and not letting you get out of your seat?

user1471596238 · 17/08/2017 16:55

Bit harsh. I'm a man and I certainly don't have any sense of entitlement or male privilege either on public transport or anywhere and I am quite sure that I'm not the only one.

RhubardGin · 17/08/2017 16:56

I can understand him being irritated at the OP not moving over but that doesn't give him the right to demand her seat anyway. Like it or not, she was there first. His choice is to sit in the window seat or not, not tell her to move and then kick up a fuss when she won't

I agree that the man in question was a dick. My argument is that some posters are assuming he acted like this because he is a sexist twat or has some sort of male superiority complex when in fact the chap could maybe just be a dick.

I hate sexism on both sides.

JetBoyJetGirl · 17/08/2017 16:56

Oh sorry, he is obviously an ignorant sexist twat who hates all woman kind....or maybe he just couldn't understand why the OP couldn't scooch over for 3 stops.

It's not that overt though.

I realised a couple of months ago in the pub that, if there wasn't much space between people, then men who were trying to pass me would place a hand on me (usually back, shoulder or waist) and 'guide' me out of their way. I also realised that I complied. Every time. Not consciously, but without hesitation. But I also noticed that they weren't doing it to the men.

So I started to ignore it. If I felt that hand upon me, I didn't respond by gently sidestepping to allow them past because we have a whole phrase for that which works really well ("excuse me"). And it was fascinating. I noticed that they initially stopped and then, generally, the pressure they applied in guiding me increased (so that it became closer to a push). And when it didn't work, they stopped again because they didn't know what to do. Because it normally works.

Some of them then said, "excuse me" to me; some of them said, "excuse me" to the man who was also blocking their path, some of them found a different path through and some of them just pushed past. What not a single one of them did was apply that gentle pressure to the shoulder, back or waist of another man.

And that is the difference. Those subtle behavioural difference that aren't there because all men hate all women Hmm but that are there because the societal expectation is that women will ease the way of men through life.

Tartyflette · 17/08/2017 16:57

No need to bring sexism into it.

Yes there is because the twat would NOT have done it to another man!!

And except that IME people who behave like this seem to be mostly.... men.
DH and I got on a train a couple of weeks ago -- seats were in the X4 configuration but without tables. It was crowded.
ONE man was sprawled out taking up all four seats. His bag was on the window seat, he sat next to it on the aisle seat while his extreme manspreading, with legs stretched out almost at right angles, completely blocked access to the two empty seats opposite.

DH would have found other seats (separately) but I asked the chap to please move his legs so that we could sit down and told him the train was very likely to get a lot more crowded as it continued.
Harummph. But he shifted.
(Google images for manspreading examples, very common on the Tube.)

KimKardashiansArse · 17/08/2017 16:59

I've commuted by train for 15 years so I can be the Judge Rinder of this and tell you that you were in the right and he was a twat. Rule is first come, first served. You don't need a reason to stay in the seat you're already sat in. You were first, you get to choose.

formerbabe · 17/08/2017 16:59

Actually op, I think you were being unreasonable. I find it incredibly rude when people won't just move up and expect others to clamber over them to another seat.

kelliewellie · 17/08/2017 17:01

Yes, actually I have. Being assaulted isn't something I'd joke about and no, not India, Manchester actually.

Beadieeye · 17/08/2017 17:02

He was arrogant or probably a bit confused or embarrassed that such a non-problem had turned into a public fiasco.
No offence but I absolutely hate when lone passengers hog the table seats (especially when I'm travelling with children), how could he have known you have anxiety about window seats and weren't just another rude person wanting the whole space to themselves and their bags?
When I get to a seat, I don't expect to have to wait to be offered one or have to ask, having paid for a seat, I expect to just get on and sit down.
Passengers on aisle seats with bags on the inside seat tend to stare out of the window or into space, completely ignoring other people looking for somewhere to sit.

MaximaDeWit · 17/08/2017 17:02

YANBU. If someone expected me to vacate a seat I was in in order to let them sit there then I'd think they were entitled and rude. I prefer the window seat so unless someone tells me they have a reason that trumps my preference to sit in that seat then they will have to sit in one of the seats that are left

JetBoyJetGirl · 17/08/2017 17:02

She didn't expect anyone to "clamber over" her though. She "tried to stand" so that she "could get out and he could take the window seat".

The clues are all there and are in the first post.

blackteasplease · 17/08/2017 17:05

Yes jet - as she stood up it was as easy for him to get into the inside seat as it would have been for OP to sit there in the first place.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 17/08/2017 17:07

Op you are being silly

A man wanted you to move over there was a seat there so it's not the seat you wanted to sit in but neither did he. He probably has a more important job than you, has to deal with more stress than you just all round more important than you he knew this shame you didn't

I bet you are one of the feminists aka man haters poor guy only wanted to sit down where he wanted

formerbabe · 17/08/2017 17:08

When you sit in the aisle seat with the window seat empty, what you are basically saying is that you don't want anyone to sit next to you and effectively you are taking up two seats...it's rude because there is a seat spare but it is only accessible if someone asks you to move.

JetBoyJetGirl · 17/08/2017 17:08

But she had a clear reason for not wanting to be in the window seat.

Why was it her responsibility to let him sit in the seat she was already occupying?

Honestly, I think some people are being deliberately obtuse on here. The number of women who will come to the defence of a man who has been rude is astounding sometimes.

Gabilan · 17/08/2017 17:09

You've been assaulted several times as a consequence of sitting on a window seat? Where do you live? India? Not to belittle your experience, but has it really happened several times?

Not to belittle, just to question whether or not it happened Hmm

It's common enough that there are campaigns against it.

glenthebattleostrich · 17/08/2017 17:09

When I used to commute I used to choose an aisle seat because getting my leg felt or lewd suggestions happened so often. And yes, there is a certain type of man who is sexist and thinks their wants are more important than a woman's. I met plenty of them on my commute.

The gropers, leg spreaders, foot kickers and not forgetting the charmer who watched porn on his phone.

gnome12 · 17/08/2017 17:10

Like kelliewellie I have also been sexually assaulted on a train as the result of being trapped/blocked in after sitting down on a window seat

It happened in Reading (not India)

Absolutely not saying that this is what would have happened in this case. Just responding to the earlier post that questioned kelliewellie's experience. It is also why I now often sit on aisle seats.

OP YANBU

MaximaDeWit · 17/08/2017 17:12

When you sit in the aisle seat with the window seat empty, what you are basically saying is that you don't want anyone to sit next to you and effectively you are taking up two seats...it's rude because there is a seat spare but it is only accessible if someone asks you to move.

This is ridiculous. So should OP sit in a seat she doesn't want to sit in even tho the seat she does want to sit in is free in case someone who gets on the train after her wants the seat she is in.

I prefer the window seat so I was always pleased if someone was in the aisle with an empty window seat and never minded asking them to jump up so I could sit next to them.

FindoGask · 17/08/2017 17:13

"Maybe he feels trapped at the window seat too?"

Well, in that case he should have found another aisle seat then! What he basically did was to tell (not ask) OP to move out of her seat so he could have it. Who does that?

DeadGood · 17/08/2017 17:14

"I'd have looked at the OP in the aisle seat, rendering the empty window seat inaccessible, and thought, "she's trying to hog a double seat so that she can have plenty of space to herself". People do this on the commuter trains in my area. I always ask them to move over; the alternative is climbing over their legs and bags in a narrow space or swinging into the vacant spot, if it's a table seat, like Tarzan."

No, the alternative is that they stand up, nettle and you walk into that window seat just like you would normally.

Do you seriously look at a person sitting in the aisle seat, with their bag on their lap and taking up no more space than anyone else, and think "she's hogging all that space!!!!"

Jesus.

StickThatInYourPipe · 17/08/2017 17:14

I think YABU for giving this anymore thought than he deserves. I think he was a dick imo and although I like the aisle seat too, if I couldn't have one i would just stand or if it was an anxious etc thing I would calmly explain that to whoever had the aisle seat and ask them if they could move over. If not I would jus tell have to deal with it.