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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Man on the train

318 replies

HunterHearstHelmsley · 17/08/2017 15:46

I was travelling to work this morning on the train. All table seats and I like to sit in the aisle seat, I feel a bit trapped if I'm by the window. I had my handbag on my lap so the window seat was free.

A man got on and grunted at me and pointed at the seat. I tried to stand so I could get out and he could take the wondow seat. He said he was getting off in three stops so he'd sit in the aisle, I said so was I and tried to move out again. He was really insistent that I should sit by the window. After about a minutes debate and me saying that I just didn't want to sit in the window seat he shouted 'for fucks sake' and stormed off to another part of the train.

I didn't think I was being unreasonable at all. But starting to wonder a bit as the day goes on!

OP posts:
derxa · 17/08/2017 21:19

I think it's general commuter politeness to sit in a window seat first on a packed train. Absolutely I think in a commuter-ville it's every man/woman for themselves.

BlackPeppercorn · 17/08/2017 21:28

I will never allow myself to be trapped into a seat like this by a man. I am 50 yrs old and still it makes me shudder to think of being 15 and on my way home from my Saturday job, I moved over when asked to by a man and out my bag in my lap. After some minutes I realised the creepy bastard was stroking my thigh. I'd clock him one now of course, call the police on my mobile and demand the cctv. But at 15 it was so traumatic, I just had to get away.
I'd rather stand.

AngeloMysterioso · 17/08/2017 21:29

The last time I moved across to a window seat on the train so a man could sit in the aisle seat, I was sexually assaulted. I haven't sat in a window seat since, and hell will freeze over before I willingly put myself in that position again.

AngeloMysterioso · 17/08/2017 21:29

BlackPeppercorn your experience is almost identical to mine

BlackPeppercorn · 17/08/2017 21:31

God it's sad this has happened to so many of us"
Mine was in Streatham SW16 in 1982, broad daylight, and He looked like a perfectly respectable 40-odd man. Could have been one of my friend's dads he was so unremarkable.

ForalltheSaints · 17/08/2017 21:33

As long as you are not trying to bag both seats, nothing wrong, as you offered an explanation. Trying to get both seats to yourself, when anyone does that, is wrong and I will sometimes choose a seat next to someone who is trying to do that, even if a window seat.

AngeloMysterioso · 17/08/2017 21:34

Also, just because it was three stops doesn't mean it's quick. I'm 3 stops from Liverpool Street, but on a good day my journey takes about 45 minutes.

AngeloMysterioso · 17/08/2017 21:41

Mine was in 2011 on a weeknight evening, between Witham and Chelmsford, on a train full of football fans on their way home from a match- they were all in the middle of the carriage, where the tables were, I was in the first double seat by the carriage door. There were quite a few double seats empty, but this guy instead asked if the seat by me was free, so I just scooted across. He began to rub his own thighs, then started stroking the hem of my coat, then ran his hand up my thigh. I said 'that's it, get off me!' climbed over him and went and sat near the football fans (figuring there was safety in numbers) and started to cry. I heard one guy say 'has he been feeling her up?' but did a single one of them ask me if I was ok? Did they bollocks.

RainbowPastel · 17/08/2017 21:42

By sitting in the aisle you are blocking the other seat especially if it has a table. I very rarely get the train but get annoyed by people who take up seats with their bags.

MerchantofVenice · 17/08/2017 21:44

Soooo a significant number of women just on this thread have experienced negative male/female power dynamics (to put it euphemistically) on trains - but, yeah, the sex of those involved is totally irrelevant when discussing behaviour around seat allocation/entitlement on trains Confused

Witsender · 17/08/2017 22:45

Mine was on the train back from Waterloo to Southampton. Budge over for the smooth looking chap with the briefcase, whose right hand quite quickly made its way up my thigh. His other hand was in his crotch, hidden by the case. This wasn't a table seat, and there wasn't much room to squeeze last after I loudly told him to stop and made my way out. He made sure I knew he quite liked my squeezing past.

A few people looked around to see what was going on, but of course no one said anything to either of us.

Bigoldsupermoon · 17/08/2017 22:50

Not RTFT but last time I moved up into a corner for a pushy bloke, he refused to let me out.

I had to climb over him and he groped me Sad

Bigoldsupermoon · 17/08/2017 22:52

Shit. Just read the last page (on my phone so can't view all). Men on public transport are such pigs.

mumoseven · 17/08/2017 22:59

I had a similar sort of man/ seat interchange when travelling with 2 paid for children.
He fumed off and said something I didn't quite catch...Shock
Ds (shocked) 'mum, he just called you a stupid old cow!'
Other Ds ( very loudly) ' no, he said stupid old CUNT!'

Letstryagainshallwe · 18/08/2017 00:04

Had this experience aswell when I was 15 and clearly in school uniform. Sat on a bus by the window. Old man gets on and sits next to me. I noticed he put his coat over his legs but didn't think anything of it till I stared to feel very warm. Look down and his coat is over my legs aswell. Push it off me and his hand was on my leg rubbing up and down! Never been so shocked at how brazen he was.

lotsofconfuse · 18/08/2017 07:50

Still don't understand why you could just explain you didn't want to sit by the window, but you are quite happy for him to sit there if he'd make room for you to get out? Why was there a lack of communication on your part? If you didn't say anything and protested to move over he would rightly so think you were just hogging an empty seat.

Ceto · 18/08/2017 07:55

But she wasn't hogging an empty seat, was she. lotsofconfuse? She was perfectly happy to stand aside to let the man use it.

Original poster
HunterHearstHelmsley · 18/08/2017 07:57

I did speak to him.

OP posts:
MerchantofVenice · 18/08/2017 08:02

lotsofconfuse Where did you get the idea that she didn't talk to him? He was the one grunting, not OP!

frogsoup · 18/08/2017 08:12

Have the people saying it's entitled to sit in an aisle seat ever actually been on a commuter train? There is no way on earth it is seen as seat-blocking, because you'll never, ever see an empty seat on your average commuter train! Nobody would get away with bag on seat nonsense on your average 7.15 to kings cross!! It is totally standard etiquette - person wanting to sit in spare window seat nods and mumbles, aisle seat person gets up to let window person in. Happens about 100 times on every train at a guess, most people (me included) seem to prefer aisle seats, and if they get there first, choosing aisle seat is their prerogative. Man was being first class arsehole.

bigmouthstrikesagain · 18/08/2017 08:41

We will never know the thought processes of the man who wanted the aisle seat. Male privilege could be part of it. But it sounds like a clash of preference they both wanted the aisle seat and both thought the other unreasonable. The opening 'won' as she had possession, the other have up his claim with very bad grace. Commuters have to put up with shitty crowded trains and grumpy fellow passengers, they tend to be on the defensive, a bit more agressive, and on edge, it is not always possible to have a pleasant interaction on a commuter train. I think some commuters burn out after a decade doing the same journey and that makes them extra sensitive to people they perceive as "in the way" it is a dehumanizing activity.

I get out of proportion annoyed with solo table hoggers, as when I am travelling with my 3 children, and an walking through carriage after carriage on our local trains with a mix of table and airline seats it is irritating to see solo passengers on each table with dozens of airline seats free. Not commuter times this is off peak. But so far I have resisted the urge to demand they move. Though once a woman raced us to a table and claimed the window seat despite the fact it was clear we were going to fill out all four. Which I found interesting, there were other seats available, pairs of airline style, but she preferred to be surrounded by kids and a pissed off parent Confused

Nowt so where as folk.

bigmouthstrikesagain · 18/08/2017 08:41

Queer!

blackteasplease · 18/08/2017 08:43

I am claustrophobic too, so that may explain my earlier replies.

I can just about manage a window seat if the person on the outside is both smaller than and known to me, but not otherwise. It annoys me that as a smallish person some people work on the basis that you require no space whatsoever.

Fyi I am on a busy train into London now. Sat on an aisle seat originally next to someone who then got off at his stop. I.stayed on the aisle seat. Then a woman got on and indicated she wanted to sit on the inside. No problem, I got up and she got in. No suggestion anyone was being u.

Livingdiisgracefully · 18/08/2017 09:42

I have never asked for someone to shuffle across on trains, planes, buses. I don't think I've ever seen it either. Unbelievable how some posters have described a situation where it might be more difficult for the aisle seat holder to get up and offer their seat, even though that doesn't represent the facts, just to support their own prejudice.

Just because you might think it's easier to shove up, because you don't suffer from claustrophobia or haven't been sexually assaulted, doesn't mean the OP does. I've never found it an issue to just say excuse me and leave it to the person sitting there to either move up or get up and let me move across. Their choice, they were there first. If had a disability, or was pregnant, making it difficult to get across, I'd explain that.

But the most appalling comment here is not people turning the facts into pretzels to support their arguments, it's the person who said they don't buy that people have been sexually assaulted on trains by being blocked in. Just because it hasn't happened to them do they really have the paucity of imagination to believe that it could have happened to someone else. For the record, when young I have had several unpleasant experiences on trains: a man putting his hand on my knee when 12 years old in a closed carriage; several flashers and someone putting his hand right up my skirt and groping me. It happens. Even if it hadn't happened to me, I'd believe it could happen to someone else.

riceuten · 18/08/2017 17:37

Frankly, I don't care where I sit (unless I get off early, or unless the person next to me is morbidly obese and spills into the next seat), so if someone was having a freddy fit about aisle or window seat, I'd roll my eyes and sit wherever they didn't want to sit.