Man on the train

[HunterHearstHelmsley]

I was travelling to work this morning on the train. All table seats and I like to sit in the aisle seat, I feel a bit trapped if I'm by the window. I had my handbag on my lap so the window seat was free.

A man got on and grunted at me and pointed at the seat. I tried to stand so I could get out and he could take the wondow seat. He said he was getting off in three stops so he'd sit in the aisle, I said so was I and tried to move out again. He was really insistent that I should sit by the window. After about a minutes debate and me saying that I just didn't want to sit in the window seat he shouted 'for fucks sake' and stormed off to another part of the train.

I didn't think I was being unreasonable at all. But starting to wonder a bit as the day goes on!

No you are right this is not in the OP, but it is an inevitable and direct consequence where the train is busy. As the post mentions he goes to another carriage and if it is a commuter train heading to work, it is perhaps reasonable, albeit not definitive, to assume that other people may have been present and trying to get past.

No what is laughable is time and time again posters rushing to defend male privilege, sexism and expecting women to think of or when they have just been spoken to in a very rude manner becuase they didn't do excatly what was expected of them by a man

still if only the op thought about him and not herself none of this would have happened and he wouldn't of had to be so rude to her

To think of others

It should have read

Not rushing to defend male privilege as I don't see it as that. I view it as as an example of fairly (and sadly, typically) selfish commuter behaviour. I see so many women edging themselves onto trains ahead of men in the mornings. I am one of them. I can't hang round and have to be assertive when trying to get on trains. I don't think that men necessarily perceive women on trains heading to work as subordinate to them, as it is a bit of a free for all. I think it is an example of commuter irritation.

There's nothing to suggest that gender was his motivation. Your making a very sexist assumption.

Well, its not just that he thought he had right to it, but that he picked on a woman and then hurled abuse at her when he didn't get his way.

And you're right. WE ALL have limited information. So I wouldn't stake my house on it, but I would say that this type of interaction is a text book example of the subtle expectations of male privilege and why women don't challenge it more often.

If he could get to another carriage, it really wasnt that crowded. Certainly not so crowded that the interaction would have held up the train.

AND, gender politics aside, if the train were held up, what held it up was his not taking the seat offered and making a fuss.

You don't know that he picked on her - that might have been the only spare seat on the carriage for all we know? I don't think he hurled abuse, he was irritated and said 'For Fucks sake'.

I think we are all interpreting things that fit our viewpoint. I can see this played out on trains all the time, you are seeing it as an example of male privilege. We may just have to agree to disagree.

What becuase he didn't say little woman move

Of course only outright sexist behaviour should be called out

If only people would stop seeing isms when it simply isn't there becuase it hasn't been vocalised

If it was the only spare seat then he should have taken it rather than try and force someone to move from their seat because he wanted theirs rather than the spare one.

I couldn't stand to let him through because he was blocking me. Trying to force me to have no option but to move over. The train wasn't packed. It was busy but there were seats.

Never thought that people thought people sitting in the aisle were 'joggers though. I've always just thought they're sitting where they prefer

Assuming that because he is a man, he must have bern motivated by "male privilege" is no different than assuming a woman should give up her seat to a man. It's sexist and hypocritical.

Sorry I cannot agree. I think he was annoyed at the claim to the aisle seat not the fact that it was a female occupying it, knowing that he was getting off in only three stops as was she. As I have said, how hard is it to move up? Really, it sounds so petty.

wah! but he started it!

Thanks for clarifying OP. Maybe its different on my trains that are packed. I often have to clamber over the aisle seat occupants with their legs, bags et al nicely encumbering my entrance to the only available window seat because they cant be bothered to move over. I find this incredibly irritating.

I'm the reverse of OP.

I'd always choose the window seat and get really annoyed if someone is sitting in the aisle seat, I ask them if I can get to the window seat - and instead of letting me through, they move and sit there ! I could have gone and sat somewhere else if I knew they were going to do that.

I would have my doubts that he really was getting off at the same stop! Seems a little too convenient! Reading between the lines he was willing to say anything to get his way. Maybe he does not like the window seat, but that does not entitle him to move others!

YANBU. I do think it's easier if the person in the aisle seat moves over but I wouldn't - I prefer the aisle seat and it's first come first served, you aren't obliged to move over to the window if you don't want to. He was being an entitled prat.

you weren't being unreasonable - he was rude. He could have sat there or somewhere else - as from what you have outlined he had choices.

You are entitled to sit where you chose, you had your reason not to move - its not like it was the only seat and you had your bag dumped on it and were being obstructive.

don't worry about him - I am sure he survived

It's about as hard as this man sitting in the available space, rather than trying to make someone else move seats for him. He made it into a big deal.

He was wrong. First come first served. You had the aisle seat, you offered to let him into the window seat, he decided to behave like a twat.

(What is it with mumsnet these days and the "you must give into the demands of others even when you got to a public place first" contingent? There was another thread the other day about some woman huffing and puffing because the OP had the temerity to have taken the sofa seats in a Costa coffee and wouldn't quietly retire to another part of the cafe because she, the huffy-puffy woman, had now arrived and wanted the sofa. There were a few odd balls on that thread who thought the OP should have given up the sofa.)

No its more of a faff in my view. Just common sense that it is easier to shove up. If it was a female wanting the male to move up because of their (non visible and non expressed) claustrophobia, then would you also be bound to draw a conclusion that the male actions were based on male privilege? You really have to see that the gender issue here is a non starter and that not all male behaviours have to be viewed through this lens. sometimes there are broader things to consider.

yanbu
have done various spells of commuting and one reason for aisle is to get off the train and through the gates in a predictable time.
one reason {apart from cost savings and quality of life) for living further up the line is to sit where you want.
so someone getting on the train for 3 stops can't sit where they want - thats the way of it - they could always move house.

@Prickly

This is completely different - have you read the thread?

Pop I was responding to others saying the train was packed which is why I couldn't stand up.

I will sometimes put my bag on the seat in between stops but always put it on my lap at stations so that people know I'm not trying to block anyone.

If I get a different train without tables and I know I can get out then I'll sit by the window. For some reason that trapped feeling triggers panic attacks, which I'm not willing to go through on a daily basis.