Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Man on the train

318 replies

HunterHearstHelmsley · 17/08/2017 15:46

I was travelling to work this morning on the train. All table seats and I like to sit in the aisle seat, I feel a bit trapped if I'm by the window. I had my handbag on my lap so the window seat was free.

A man got on and grunted at me and pointed at the seat. I tried to stand so I could get out and he could take the wondow seat. He said he was getting off in three stops so he'd sit in the aisle, I said so was I and tried to move out again. He was really insistent that I should sit by the window. After about a minutes debate and me saying that I just didn't want to sit in the window seat he shouted 'for fucks sake' and stormed off to another part of the train.

I didn't think I was being unreasonable at all. But starting to wonder a bit as the day goes on!

OP posts:
Urubu · 17/08/2017 19:55

To those saying good etiquette is to take the window seat if you are first, do you seat on the middle seat when the window seat is taken and the aisle one is free (3 seats config)?
If yes, you are in the minority seing as middle seats are always the last ones left in a full carriage. So clearly the etiquette is first come first served.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 17/08/2017 19:56

You were not being unreasonable

Marinade · 17/08/2017 19:59

Urbubu

Middle seat dynamics are out of scope here - not relevant to this particular story because of their particular type of hideousness which is beyond the rather binary sexist / non sexist argument at the heart of this thread.

PricklyBall · 17/08/2017 20:01

Of course I have read the thread, Marinade. First person in situation chooses the seat they want. Other seats are available. They are under no obligation to move. Applies in trains. Applies on buses. Applies in cafes. Bloke in this instance was being a cheeky fucker.

(I personally prefer a window seat, but I'm a little short arse. I can completely see why someone taller would want an aisle seat so they could stretch their legs.)

AvaCrowder2 · 17/08/2017 20:03

Since I once got on a empty train and sat in a window seat facing forward, then at the next stop two, much bigger than me, men got on the still empty train. One sat across the two seats opposite me and spread his legs out, the other sat next to me and put his feet up opposite, so I was really blocked in. They began a lewd conversation and intimidated me. I always try to get an aisle seat, I never want to feel like again.

I would be surprised if a man had experienced quite what I did.

holw · 17/08/2017 20:06

Not unreasonable at all.
You were there first, and you were considerate enough to leave a seat spare rather than putting your handbag on it. It doesn't matter which seat you left free - a free seat's a free seat!
He has a nerve if he thinks he can go up to anybody and demand to have their seat instead of an already empty one!
Good on you for standing up for yourself!

Marinade · 17/08/2017 20:07

@Prickly

Just struggling to understand why you are drawing such similarities between two completely different scenarios? Bloke in this instance as a cheeky fucker? What about just refusing to move up for the sake of speed, efficiency and just all round consideration? Is that not capable of being perceived as cheeky fuckery? I see cheeky fuckery when I have to clamber over legs and bags to get to a window seat that others have blocked my entrance to continually? Are you always so succinctly correct in your appraisals of situations and the parallels you draw?

Nobody has said that there is an obligation to move for goodness sake its easier all round if you just do isnt it?

AssassinatedBeauty · 17/08/2017 20:13

@Marinade you're not considering that many people expect to sit in the spare seat when asking to sit down.

It honestly doesn't take much difference in time for someone to move over or for them to stand up and let you sit down. It's their choice which they do because they were there first! The person wanting to sit down shouldn't expect them to vacate their seat for them.

Hygge · 17/08/2017 20:16

I just reread the OP and realised he grunted at you and pointed to the window seat.

Grunted and pointed. And as if that wasn't rude enough, he wasn't grunting and pointing to ask you to let him in, he was grunting and pointing to order you to move over.

I didn't think you were unreasonable before but having realised how rude he really was, YADNBU at all.

MerchantofVenice · 17/08/2017 20:20

It's clear from this thread that people do have different views of 'aisle/window etiquette'. It's not difficult to appreciate that some people think it's better to always take the window seat, whereas others think it's absolutely fine to sit in the aisle. But whatever you think about that, it's surely not difficult to see that it's rude to aggressively challenge someone in whichever seat they've picked? Are people really so unimaginative that they think their approach to 'aisle or window' is the actual law on the matter, and other people should be corrected/pestered/sworn at until they comply??

It's very easy to see how this could be an example of male privilege at work. We can't know this - but I'm a bit baffled by those falling over themselves to deny outright that this could have anything to do with sexism! Really??

Marinade · 17/08/2017 20:21

I disagree. Many people simply expect to sit in the spare seat because they know that the aisle seat occupant has claimed that seat, regardless of the inconvenience it causes to others, and because most people don't express their true feelings but just get into a huff about it. It doesn't actually make the original behaviour OK and it does not justify people taking those seats simply because they were there first as has been asserted here many time. And on busy commuter trains it really does cause a delay whilst everyone else is hovering around them trying to get past and is a PITA. It is just selfish. I see it all the time. I don't want to have to ask someone if I can sit down because they are hindering my approach to an otherwise available seat. Just move over.

More than anything I just disagree with the fundamental tenet of this thread that this is about male privilege or entitlement.

Marinade · 17/08/2017 20:25

@MerchantofVenice

Yes really - perhaps we just see this as a sign of wary, dysfunctional, commuter interaction.... Maybe he had a 12 hour day ahead of him.... Maybe his wife just left him.

There are soo many variables to this situation that the knee jerk reaction of male privilege is just so simplistic and presumptive.

Whenwillwe3meetagain · 17/08/2017 20:25

He was unnecessarily rude but it really annoys me when people don't use the window seat and I have to ask them to scoot over or move out so I can get in.
I think it's general commuter politeness to sit in a window seat first on a packed train.

MerchantofVenice · 17/08/2017 20:26

You disagree? Is that to me, marinade? Because what you've written doesn't seem to contradict my post as such - you've just described one of the variations of seat ettiquette to which I alluded. You're sort of confirming what I said about some people thinking their version is the actual right one...

AssassinatedBeauty · 17/08/2017 20:27

It really isn't selfish. You can't predict where everyone else might like to sit. You can't assume they want to sit on the aisle or by the window. You can choose where you sit from the remaining available seats, but it's unreasonable to expect others to give up their seat for you.

MerchantofVenice · 17/08/2017 20:29

But it can be both marinade - general irritation tinged with a bit of oh-so-subtle male privilege. Isn't that more likely than it being 100% non-sex-related arseholery?

Marinade · 17/08/2017 20:36

@Merchant
Not denying the variety of reasons and preferences but just questioning the inbuilt assumption that this has to be male privilege which you appear to be supporting.

@Assassinated Beauty
OK, I perceive it to be selfish based on my experiences, preferences and expectations, in the same way that you seem to perceive it as an example of male privilege. And I guess when I speak to other commuters or peers they tend to agree that they find it annoying.

Whilst this has been entertaining, I am going to watch some watch some TV now whilst I contemplate the unpredictable commuter behaviours I may encounter tomorrow.

MerchantofVenice · 17/08/2017 20:37

I personally always find it weird when people are so adamant that behaviour has definitely got absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the male/female dynamics of our society, as if each interaction occurs in a vacuum. Our interactions with each other are certainly complex; to deny the power dynamic between men and women is to over-simplify them.

AssassinatedBeauty · 17/08/2017 20:45

@Marinade I have not mentioned, referred to, supported or disagreed with the idea that it is male privilege. I'm intrigued how you can discern my opinion on that.

Caprianna · 17/08/2017 20:48

I don't think this is about male female behaviour though I notice it is always women who put their bags on spare seats on packed trains. Female entitlement / priviledge?

MerchantofVenice · 17/08/2017 20:55

I think in this case it's highly likely to be at least a bit about male entitlement; it's got all the hallmarks... Man wants to move woman; woman doesn't automatically comply; man gets arsey. Of course we can't know. But, again, I'd come back to the idea that it's illogical to want to 100% rule out any sexist agenda rather than just admit it could be a factor...

PopGoesTheWeaz · 17/08/2017 20:55

hunter just to clarify, my "wah! but he started it" wasn't directed at you. I really dont think you were being unreasonable at all. A different poster had said you were because how hard is it to move, and not moving is petty and I was trying to point out that he started it and how hard was it for HIM to move.

anyway, sorry you had to deal with this in the morning . I hate things like this and end up carrying them with me so hopefully airing it here has helped with that.

for the people who say that this isnt MP bc they also feel entitled to the aisle seat, the difference is that presumably your arent bullying people into trying to give it up, physically blocking them from standing up if they would prefer not to?

And as merchant says, isn't it more likely that this interaction was tinged by the genders of the people involved than not?

PopGoesTheWeaz · 17/08/2017 20:59

it is always women who put their bags on spare seats on packed trains

This is not my experience at all.

Danceswithwarthogs · 17/08/2017 21:00

As a student (on a Friday evening coming home from Bristol for the weekend) I was letched on (leg squeezed and repeated "go on give us a kiss" advances) by a steaming drunk racegoer from Cheltenham to Leamington Spa, the train was not busy, I was sitting next to the window at a table... he sat next to me and trapped me in. The train was quiet and everyone else ignored it, although one nice man with a small child kept looking over as if concerned for me. On the way home I sat in aisle seat with my bag on the other chair... perhaps it's by bitter experience that some people (mainly women) may feel anxiety at being trapped in a train seat by a stranger.

lazycrazyhazy · 17/08/2017 21:03

YANBU I'm another paid up claustrophobic. It makes all the difference to me to sit in the aisle. Even on planes I've had people tut when I won't just shove across- from my allocated seat! If only humans could go gently and think there might be a reason why. I actually say to people that I'm a bit claustrophobic which seems to help.