Weird daughter in law

[ericsmum1234]

I have three children in their '30's and a son of 11. My problem is with one of my son's DP. She's always been a bit difficult to get along with but after 7 years I'm at the end of my tether. My son and her moved about 2 hours drive away for work 3 years ago. All good, they love where they live and have got really good jobs and a good life and my ds is very happy with her BUT, she really seems to dislike me and makes no secret of it. My youngest and his brother are really close & I've driven him there numerous times that involves a 4 hour round trip, but when I get there she barely says hello and when ive asked for a cup of tea she says no, we've got stuff to do. It's a brew ffs! And I have to turn around and drive for another 2 hours to get home. They rock up every xmas and eat all the food and contribute nothing, I'm on my own with little money and struggle to provide every year ( my two other children contribute, we do it between the three of us).

What's tipped me this time is I took my son up & she wasn't there, my son said she was at work and I didn't think anything of it. Then when I spoke to my youngest in the phone he told me that she was in the bedroom and came out when I'd gone. Obviously avoiding me. I just wanted to scream at her and say "what's your problem with me?" But my son wouldn't back me up. I know that he'd take her side and just stop speaking to me because he won't ever admit he's in the wrong. I'm not the sort of MIL who interferes ( I get on really well with my other children's DP), but I'm not doing that trip again because a) I can't afford the petrol and b) I'm not having the piss taken out of me. My youngest doesn't want to go any more either because she's not that nice to him.
The question is that this situation is going to pop again soon, how do I handle it? My anxiety is through the roof just thinking about it

Sorry that meant to say 'your DIL's attitude towards your DS.' Sorry, predictive text again!

I'm not self absorbed either. Don't forget, you are only getting my side of this, I can only give my own perspective.

I knew what you meant mittens!!

There isn't anything else you can actually do, except listen to him and how he feels about the past. It's how he experienced things so don't try to minimise it. His siblings weren't there for the worst of it from what you said so they won't have the same hurt about it.

After listening, you need to genuinely ask his forgiveness for what you put him through with no 'buts'. And without being emotional in front of him. If it's upsetting you could rely on a good friend, or maybe see a therapist.

Then this issue could be resolved.

My experience is that it's easy to say 'sorry' and get all upset, my DM does that. She plays the martyr, but we've got past it by just not talking about the 'elephant in the room'.

I have tried so hard mittens to be a good mum to all of them. If I was so self absorbed I would've called the DP out on her rudeness and I wouldn't be posting on here for advice. I have paid ( financially and emotionally) to my son for my bad choices over and over again, where does it end?
Its probobly predicable that some mn'ers would blame me. But at the end of the day his DP is fucking rude and I don't deserve it.

Except you do deserve it. You allowed him to be abused for three years and your posts are all still about how hard you had it/how he was a difficult child etc just making excuses for not protecting him.

Have you read the whole thread, especially the bit where I've apologised profusely but he still won't talk to me about it?

If your apologies are littered with excuses then I'm not surprised. She is unkind towards your younger son and there is no excuse for that I can see why she is distant/rude with you and why she reported you

What a horrible post, Advice.

Sorry if this has already been mentioned, op, but have you thought about writing all this down in an email and sending it to your son?

It might be easier to communicate with him via the written word.

Yes, naive, it is a horrible post.
Your suggestion is a good one & I will give it some thought about how I word it.

I'm going to back away from this now. Lots of you have been really helpful and constructive, others not so much so. I fully accept my fault in this and will address it with my son, but there is fault on both sides and I refuse to take 100% of the blame.

Naice sorry autocorrect!!

Adviceplease360 You are one of those people who believe that parents should always be perfect and if not should wear a hair-shirt for the rest of their lives.

I am sorry for whatever pain you may have suffered and I know there are some appalling parents out there, but really you have no reason to take the button of information that the OP has given us about a rude DIL and sew a coat out of your own life onto it.

there is fault on both sides and I refuse to take 100% of the blame.

With your DiL, yes it's probably on both sides.

In regards to your son's childhood, especially regarding the abuse, there is no 'fault' in him there. He was a child, and if it transpires that he is still carrying it to this day (and it's quite likely, men are far more likely to suffer with long term mental health issues), what he needs is to hear 'sorry', without any ifs, buts, 'I tried my best' or anything similar. It is the only way to start moving forward. However, that is ultimately up to yourself. You might find what some (including myself) have said as 'harsh' since you've written about his teenager years, but you do read as you think he should have moved on by now. For most abused and suffering mental health issues from a young age, it never truly goes away.

I would also look up 'scapegoat child'. It may well also give an insight to his feelings from his teen years.

Maybe she doesn't want your son there? Or want to spend her weekends on her own or with her partner driving to your house to collect your son. In the nicest possible way, you're not doing her a favour by dropping your son off for babysitting. It's not a custody arrangement. Does she want to come to yours for Christmas? It sounds like she doesn't but still makes the effort to go. Why can't your son make tea? for whatever reason she obviously doesn't like you so avoids you while still opening her home to your son. That seems fair on her.

@EdmundCleverClogs, I thoroughly agree about long-term MH problems. My DB has been seriously damaged by the past, much more than my DSis and me. He's seriously mentally ill now, and my DM constantly makes out that this is due to Lariam, an anti-malarial prophylactic, and not because of the childhood abuse. But that didn't happen until he was 28, and he was already seriously damaged, I don't see that changing, sadly. My DM is seriously in denial.

Your DS is not damaged like that, I know. But it sounds like he is seriously hurting. He does need to hear you acknowledging your part in what happened, with no ifs, buts, or you telling him he's not remembered it right. (You may have done this, but judging by how defensive you've been on here I have a feeling you haven't, or if you have it's not how he heard it.

Once you've done that, you can move on to address things that have happened since, and then maybe address the DIL issue. But it may be that you'll simply have to accept that she doesn't have to have a relationship and you can both call a truce.

You seem to think that your apology is all he needs to just get over a really damaging period of his childhood, when he was already a vulnerable (depressive episodes) child.

It just doesn't work like that. Saying sorry doesn't make it all go away.

I think this thread should have a trigger warning - initially it looks quite innocuous but the drip feed and the sharing of clearly painful memories and feelings from PP that it has led to it has certainly raised some difficult memories for me.

@londonmummy1966, I'm really sorry, that was partly down to me. I'll be more careful in future.

The 'toxic parent' part is just the language used by the author. I'm more interested to know if you recognise any of your own behaviours from the description. I'm not trying to be cruel.

You've offered apologies with caveats.

You've minimised what happened to him.

You've used several excuses for what happened, all which move any kind of blame from you.

When challenged about these things you've moved into how he's always been difficult.

It's literally textbook which is why I posted the excerpt. It's not a blame thing, no hair shirts necessary as a pp said. It's a trying to understand thing. I doubt I'll ever raise things with my own mother as it serves little purpose, she loves me but had her own issues that meant she wasn't always an especially effective parent. If your son was posting I'd be sharing similar thoughts with him. I wouldn't be encouraging him to go to you with them, but instead to process the harm caused to him and then take responsibility for how he deals with it as an adult now. I'm sure you have had your own harm done to you hence you ended up in bad relationships. The point I'm trying to make is that your bad experiences should have no bearing on your son, he shouldn't have to have had a shit time when he was younger because your own life meant you found it hard too.

If we go back to the core of your issue it's with DiL, your son doesn't appear to have done anything wrong, which is why it's quite telling how quickly you were prepared to send some 'blame' (For what? How he was treated by your ex?) his way by talking about how he has been difficult in the past.

Basically the script has been:

• your son had a shit time.
• I know, I've said sorry lots but I was having a hard time too.
• yes but he was a child so had no power to make changes to the situation.
• well I've said sorry, I had a difficult childhood, what more can I do.
• still, it was your responsibility not your son's.
• I'm not taking all the blame. He's always been difficult, and other people see it.

Accepting is hard hence why I won't be asking my mother to. It's not worth it if someone doesn't want to see it or take ownership.

Your DiL is being rude, I agree she perhaps doesn't want an 11 year old there at her weekend and probably your DS finds it hard to say no to you. Getting start about money for Christmas is all a bit game playing to me. Just say I want you all here but can't afford it by myself let's all chip in. It doesn't need to be another blaming/scapegoating thing

Getting arsey* about money
that should say

there is fault on both sides and I refuse to take 100% of the blame but you are where your son is concerned. I am sorry but you are in complete denial about your actions.

@Lenl, I think you're right that there is a pattern here. OP, you mentioned that you had a similar childhood experience to the one I described. Have you ever processed your childhood experiences? If so, you need to do that before you can really understand your role in your DS's experience, you both need therapeutic support if you're going to rebuild your relationship.

It's also sad that you're NC with your sister, my DSis and I are a good source of mutual support in processing what happened to us.

I really do think your DIL is a red herring; complaining about her misses the whole point of how things have ended up like this between you and your DS.

We're really not trying to be nasty, sometimes it's hard to see the wood from the trees when you're in the middle of a family feud.

HeebieJeebies456

You do know that just because that is your experience, that it is not everyone elses?

No-one should be dictating how he responds to this situation or his parent/s.

I know I said that I would back off from this thread, but some of you are either not reading what I've written or misinterpreted the situation.
Firstly, I have said over and over again that my son has had counselling and we have had loads of conversations about what happened and each time I've apologised for my part in it. When he first moved away he struggled to settle, understandably. He had private healthcare with his job, so he had some really good councilloring for about 6 months and he felt much better. During this time we spent a lot of time together, talking, I either went to him or vice versa. He also wanted to split with his DP because he felt so bad, he asked my opinion which was not to split because she really supported and loved him. It was a bit of a wobble & they seem ok now. Her problem is with me.

Secondly, I am not using him for childcare! He invites my youngest to stay, I never ask, but I'm expected to take him and pick him up. They don't have a car.

Thirdly, I have bipolar. So I've had loads of therapy over the years and I'm on medication for it so I realise it's been hard on the kids and I feel really bad about that. I don't have any parents anymore, there's only my sister and me, but she was really horrible to my two boys so I cut off contact about 15 years ago and we all feel much better for that.

If I've been drip feeding, I apologise, that wasn't my intention. I was just trying to answers posters points.

I really do think your DIL is a red herring; complaining about her misses the whole point of how things have ended up like this between you and your DS

The OP has spent a lot more time discussing her relationship with her son than complaining about DIL since people started suggesting they would be a back story, so I think the OP is showing that she is getting the point.

OP, you say he comes and visits on his own at times. Gently raise the issue that you are aware that DIL was there last time you visited and was avoiding you. Say you're not angry with either of them about it but just want to understand if there's something you can do to make it better. If he denies it or avoids the question or whatever, tell him that you do not want to force him to talk about it if he doesn't want to, but you wondered if it was stemming from anger over the fact you did not protect him from his step dad and other things that happened to him as a child and that, if it is, that you want him to know that he can talk to you about that, now or in the future, and it doesn't have to be just swept under the carpet. You could also say that it might make things easier on everyone if he and your 11 year-old could spend some time together elsewhere for the time being.

You must think about what is best for your 11 year-old and him spending time in their house doesn't seem to be going that well for him, and you getting anxious/angry/upset is certainly not going to do him any good either so you need boundaries of your own in order to protect him. Tolerating being treated so rudely is not going to help him or anyone else.