Weird daughter in law

[ericsmum1234]

I have three children in their '30's and a son of 11. My problem is with one of my son's DP. She's always been a bit difficult to get along with but after 7 years I'm at the end of my tether. My son and her moved about 2 hours drive away for work 3 years ago. All good, they love where they live and have got really good jobs and a good life and my ds is very happy with her BUT, she really seems to dislike me and makes no secret of it. My youngest and his brother are really close & I've driven him there numerous times that involves a 4 hour round trip, but when I get there she barely says hello and when ive asked for a cup of tea she says no, we've got stuff to do. It's a brew ffs! And I have to turn around and drive for another 2 hours to get home. They rock up every xmas and eat all the food and contribute nothing, I'm on my own with little money and struggle to provide every year ( my two other children contribute, we do it between the three of us).

What's tipped me this time is I took my son up & she wasn't there, my son said she was at work and I didn't think anything of it. Then when I spoke to my youngest in the phone he told me that she was in the bedroom and came out when I'd gone. Obviously avoiding me. I just wanted to scream at her and say "what's your problem with me?" But my son wouldn't back me up. I know that he'd take her side and just stop speaking to me because he won't ever admit he's in the wrong. I'm not the sort of MIL who interferes ( I get on really well with my other children's DP), but I'm not doing that trip again because a) I can't afford the petrol and b) I'm not having the piss taken out of me. My youngest doesn't want to go any more either because she's not that nice to him.
The question is that this situation is going to pop again soon, how do I handle it? My anxiety is through the roof just thinking about it

I was really pissed off with her questioning my parenting considering I brought up her DP and you allowed him to be abused. Instead of protecting him you lent on him. He was a child and should not have been used as your crutch.

I had a certain amount of sympathy for you when you first posted but after reading the updated posts there seems to be a lot of self-denial going on. I would love to here your DIL's view of the situation and I agree she was right to telephone SS given the whole back story (that you carefully omitted from your original post).

This may be a bit blunt and obviously you can't change the past so don't mean it to sound attacking. But you may need to accept how things are:

He was the only one living at home at the time and I did lean on him, not as a substitute husband, but as an ally. Looking back I was wrong because he was only 19 and my exh was vile to him. We've spoken about it since and I've apologised profusely. I feel really bad but I was in a bad place myself & I had a new baby.

Whether you see it as using him as a substitute husband or not, leaning on your child for emotional support sucks for the child and is inappropriate. I know because my mother did it to me. She would not feel it was an issue and would feel it was proof of what a good relationship we have. She sees it that we are allies. Parents shouldn't be allies with their child age children. It sounds like there was a sense of you both being ' in it together' mistreated by your exH when in reality your son had no choice in being in it, he was a child, you did as you were an adult.

You have not taken ownership of this period of your son's life and several of your posts include (like the one above) caveats regarding how it was hard for you too, when this really is beside the point - you were the adult who could make a change and he was the child (teen or not). You've also referenced not sticking up for him because it was hard you had a new baby.

See it from his perspective as a child - mum is with a guy who treats him like shit, she does nothing about it, then has a baby with this and that becomes the reason she can't help.

I suspect your son has talked to his partner about it all and is trying to distance himself because she has helped him see your relationship isn't the healthiest - perhaps due to her own background. That your other children 'see it' is beside the point. He may feel your other children simply haven't confronted life being shitty when they were young.

Yes you've apologised but if the apologies have come surrounded by talk about how hard life has been for you (not necessarily as a 'I'm sorry but", just more a general mention of how you had a new baby/were in a bad place yourself/had a bad childhood) then I'm afraid they don't mean a great deal, again speaking from experience here.

It strikes me his partner thinks poorly of you and just can't be bothered, whereas your son is a bit more hot and cold as it's hard to accept your relationship with a parent is negative thing for you.

I still think her behaviour is rude as it's not for her to tell him how he should manage his relationship with you and she's sort of forcing his hand potentially but given your son doesnt reply to texts and things he doesn't seem that keen himself.

Yes he's an adult now but your actions or lack of actions as a child harmed him and this comes across like he's at the stage of processing this. At 29 I'm only just doing this in regards to my mother.

The evil stepdad came when he was 16. This odd idea [about the affair] came out when he was about 15.

I found my son in his room crying, it still kills me every time I think of it, of course the exh denied it. He felt very threatened by my son, he wanted him to move out as soon as he was 16, I was too downtrodden to stick up for him & d just had a baby

He was the only one living at home at the time and I did lean on him, not as a substitute husband, but as an ally. Looking back I was wrong because he was only 19 and my exh was vile to him.

Your son was 15 when the step father moved in then. Not 16. Things were bad enough fast enough that he wanted to chuck him out when he turned 16. And your son was still there at 19, being 'leaned on'.

The abuse didn't go on for years, it was three years

It was actually more than that then. 15 to 19. This is hard for you OP i know - but you are minimising. It's in your posts and if you're doing it here you're almost definitely doing it when you've spoken to your son about it, even unintentionally, and that will do more damage than all the apologising in the world. Read lenls post carefully. I think it's spot on.

In abusive families there is almost always a scapegoat. Did your son suffer more than your other children. Maybe they were younger and less susceptible or maybe your son shielded them from abuse and put himself in harms way to protect his younger siblings.

TBH, relying on your DS for emotional support means he can't talk to you about what it was like for him. You weren't there for him when he needed you to be. That's why he's angry.

I can't talk to my DM, neither can my DSis. She tells us not to ruin a nice day by talking about the past. When I do talk about it she cries and becomes the victim. We need to be able to make sense of the past and she's the one who was there. But it's made it necessary for me to shut down to survive.

Don't do that. I expect that's why he's distanced himself from you and why his DP is so cold towards you.

Sorry to be blunt but if you want a relationship with your son, then you need to be the mum that you weren't when you should have been.

I can't talk to my DM, neither can my DSis. She tells us not to ruin a nice day by talking about the past. When I do talk about it she cries and becomes the victim.

One of the key reasons I went NC with family is exactly this. Getting angry, minimising, 'I did my best, I'm so sorry that wasn't good enough' (not actually sorry, just deflecting guilt), refusing to acknowledge our feelings or even denying that's how we felt, generally pretended nothing bad happened and getting really offended when it's suggested it's still having an effect to this day, etc.

'Let's just sweep it under the carpet' mentality only works for so long, like plugging an active volcano and hope it solves the problem. No, all that pressure will eventually come out somehow.

Don't ask for a donation for Christmas, say you are purchasing x y and z and it will cost £150 and don't have the money so please deposit £40 into bank account x by this date (two weeks before Christmas) so that I can get the stuff. If they don't just keep sending daily tx reminders everyday and saying 'hi can you send that £40 today as I won't be able to get food for you if not as it's not fair and brother and sil have already given their £40.

Your DS and DIL have judged you, rightly or wrongly. DS wants a relationship with his younger DB. DIL wants nothing to do with you, respect her choice.
You can decline be to transport DS4 or agree a half way meeting point, up to you. Don't host at Christmas

OP it sounds to me like you are really minimising how much your DS was affected by his childhood. He clearly has a different perspective on it than you. You can't change what happened but I think you need to understand that your DS can't just get over it and that your DIL's view of you has been coloured by the continued fall out of the abuse your DS suffered.
I would be gobsmacked if your DS wasn't involved with the decision to call social services.

Interesting a full circle thread, will it now continue?

Your DS and DIL have judged you, rightly or wrongly

I'm afraid that is a lot of extrapolation from the very limited information in this thread.

I could take it another way with just as much justification. I could imagine a scenario where the son has been conditioned to be with controlling people by his father, so now he has found a controlling wife who is doing her best to alienate him from his family. Neither of these interpretations are necessarily true.

True, it could be that the DIL is simply rude. But I think the business with social services suggests there's more to it. And the fact that there was DV in the house when the DS lived there. It's clearer complicated and it won't be resolved by a mumsnet thread.

Laiste What utter bollocks. OP has bared her soul about what went on with her abusive ex and her son and how bad she feels about it, and you attack her because you think you know better than her what age her son was when ex moved in?

OP - hope you are still about. I started reading this yesterday and have only caught up today. I don't know if you can read anything into it re upbringing, only you will know that. What actually jumped out at me is that she may well have problems. She reminds me of someone who i know who comes across just like your DIL but there are some mental health issues that a lot of people wouldn't be aware of. Could it be that it really is nothing to do with you and she is like that with everyone? I think the money thing is separate and nothing to do with her attitude (although the person i am thinking off would pull that type of stunt in a heart beat!)

Hi everyone, I'm still about. I was at work

There's some really judgemental posts on here, some really upset me to be honest. I realise that you don't know me and can only go by what I tell you but I've done guilt big time over what happened to my son growing up. He was a difficult teenager, before I met the evil stepfather, and I took him to the doctors on a few occasions about his depression but he would talk about to anyone. Im talking aged 12/13. Also, I don't want to drip feed, but he had regular contact with his dad until he moved away.

Thank you. biscuit. I appreciate your kind words

Your DIL could have depression/ anxiety issues like myself I've been known to hide in the bedroom when my MIL has visited she's rather full on and some days I'm not up to it so I'd rather just watch some telly in the bedroom while my DP handles his mother but I've recently had a baby so it's impossible to hide now! Don't be too harsh on her you don't know her mental health status.

ignore the judgy comments, op.

My childhood was a lot more abusive than what your ds experienced -
but i no longer hold my parents responsible for any issues in my life today.
I couldn't imagine behaving like this towards them.
I certainly wouldn't allow any bf/friend of mine to treat them like this.
They are different people today compared to back then, and despite what was going on we were still cared for as best as they knew how.
I don't expect/want to be punished for life for how my choices impacted them.

The only sibling who behaves the way your son does is a full blown narcissist - also enabled by her husband.
They're behaviour towards my parents and family is just awful....but only because people allow it to happen.
I refuse to tolerate it, no matter how 'uncomfortable' or 'awkward' it makes for the rest of family interaction.
It's had a domino effect on some of my siblings but others are still too much in FOG.

oh, and don't mention xmas to him - let him ask you himself.
When/if you invite him for xmas, make your terms very clear - payment by x date etc
Call dil out on her rudeness if she shows any, somebody needs to face that elephant in the room.

They can either grow up or take their nastiness somewhere else.

Thanks Heebie, I was beginning to wonder if I'd really cocked up! My other 2 adult children don't understand what his problem is either. He stopped having any contact with his dad when he met DP, and he's understandably hurt as the other two enjoy a good relationship with him. I've shed more tears over this son than any of the others because he won't talk to me & if I asked him what his dp's problem is he would deny there was one.
Just to answer the pp about her loving my youngest - she doesn't! She really seems to resent him, so much so that he doesn't want to go and visit his brother again. So if that's what she was setting out to do then she's succeeded. My youngest is gutted about this, he was really close to his brother. He's done nothing wrong, he's only 11 ffs!

OP - if you have honestly tried to talk to him and you have acknowledged what went on and apologised for your role in it, then what else can you do but focus on your 11 year-old and keeping him safe and happy? Heebie and I seem to be in similar positions. At some point we've got to say, enough is enough. Lying to you about her whereabouts in front of an 11 year-old is not just rude, it's also very disorientating for him. Everyone else in this scenario is an adult but he is not and has to be the priority.

You are absolutely right - I'm going round in circles over this. My 11 year old IS my priority. Thanks.

@ericsmum1234, I suppose your DIL's attitude to your DIL might simply be because she really doesn't like children at all. You did say that they didn't want children ever. She might feel resentment that she and your DP were left to mind your DS - have I understood right about that?

Either way, that was inexcusable, and I'm sure it would have hurt your youngest DS.

I'm wondering whether a PP might be right and it's a MH issue?

From the start of the SH thread, excerpt from Susan Forward's book.

Not sure if the op will anything she recognises.

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

I am so sorry because I really do not want to be cruel but the more you post the more self absorbed you appear with no acceptance for your behaviour in this story and the fact that you are partly responsible for your son's behaviour. It appears to be al about you and not your son and his partner. Once you fully accept your responsibility for allowing him to be abused (which he was regardless for how long) you may be able to move on.

Really lenl? I'm not a toxic parent!! I'm not a batshit mother in law either. I have made mistakes and I've tried to sort it with my son, but if he won't engage with me, what else can I do? It's like walking on eggshells when I'm around him and his dp.