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Original poster

To not discipline DS for shouting at an adult

986 replies

riverotter · 12/08/2017 12:37

DS(10) is normally quiet and quite polite. However, he can explode a bit if pushed.

He was at a friend's house last night and I picked him up at just after 8. The mum seemed a bit quiet and this morning she sent a text asking if we could talk so I called her.

Her version is that DS shouted and slammed a glass down on the table and it made everybody feel very uncomfortable. Obviously I asked what brought it on and she said it was because her mum, so his friend's grandma, had offered DS a sandwich!

So I spoke to DS. He started crying Sad and said he did but he didn't really like any of them so kept saying no thank you, no thank you. But apparently the gran kept saying go on, have one, they are nice, I've been making these all afternoon. He said she was waving one in his face when he shouted 'no, I said no.' (I actually taught him that phrase a while back.)

So - discipline or not? I'm not sure how to deal with this. I hate rudeness but I hate people who won't say no for an answer as well.

OP posts:
ArmySal · 12/08/2017 12:56

I wouldn't tolerate mine slamming a glass down in our own house, if they did it at someone else's I'd be livid.

Notevilstepmother · 12/08/2017 12:57

Better that he upset Granny than went along with someone trying to persuade him to break the law/take his clothes off/hurt someone.

Talk it through with him. He knows he caused an upset because he wasn't trying to lie about it. It's not the worst thing that could have happened. (Friends dad probably saw the funny side even if friends mum didn't).

HipsterHunter · 12/08/2017 12:57

If it was the other way round, and he had asked the grandma several times for something, but she shouted at him and slammed a glass down - would that be ok with you?

Well.... actually I see parents do this all the time.

Muuuum can I have an ice cream
No
Muuuuuuuuum I realy wnt an ice cream.
No.
But MUUUUUUM I really want one
NO FOR GOODNESS SAKE I SAID NO

SerfTerf · 12/08/2017 12:57

Being assertive doesn't involve shouting and slamming.

Shouting and slamming is rude.

If you're impressed by a child being that rude to an adult about food-pushing, your parenting is in deep trouble, frankly.

How are you going to teach REAL assertiveness if you can't get this straight in your head?

HipsterHunter · 12/08/2017 12:58

I wouldn't tolerate mine slamming a glass down

That is fair actualy.

"no I said no" is fine but the glass slamming is pretty bad.

LaurieFairyCake · 12/08/2017 12:58

I think we're expecting rather a lot of a ten year old

If we try and put ourselves in his place for a minute:

Trapped at a table as everyone's eating, saying No has no effect, not sure what to do, frustration building, feeling uncomfortable.

I think one of the things I would be focusing on is how to get away from being trapped. Encourage him to go to the loo, ask to go home, ask to call you.

Sophisticated options are really hard to remember here. Negotiating discourse with adults who won't take no for an answer is really difficult - look at the hundreds of threads on here where adult women can't say no to their in laws.

We need to get children to check in to that uncomfortable feeling in their bodies when they're being asked to do things they don't want to.

DontTouchTheMoustache · 12/08/2017 12:58

To say you are secretly impressed with him is a bit Hmm unless you are the kind of person who enjoys drama and confrontation.
He overreacted, she was probably being a bit annoying but she meant well. He could have taken the sandwich and just put it on his plate to appease her, there are many ways he could have politely dealt with the situation. You need to talk to him about responding appropriately.

Tartyflette · 12/08/2017 12:58

Really? You would shout and slam your glass down too if you someone kept offering food you didn't want?
It's quite normal to offer something to a guest two or even three times. (unless you're in Germany Grin )
His behaviour was somewhat OTT. We all have to put up with 'tedious' people from time to time, you and your DS need to learn with it firmly but without shouting or losing your temper.

It sounds like they were trying to be hospitable and nice in making sure he had something to eat. In some cultures it is almost impossible for a visitor to refuse offers of food or drink, such is the ingrained habit of hospitality.
It definitely sounds like he needs more strategies than just 'No, I said no.' (which sounds rather abrupt anyway.)

catkind · 12/08/2017 12:58

If it was the other way round, and he had asked the grandma several times for something, but she shouted at him and slammed a glass down - would that be ok with you?

Don't you think that if someone came on MN saying their child had continued asking a visiting adult to do something after the adult had politely said no several times, then started waving it in the adult's face, MN verdict would not be that the child had been incredibly rude and deserved whatever consequence came to them?

FrLukeDuke · 12/08/2017 12:58

But yes, he must show respect to his elders at all time, even if they're not respecting him and say yes to everything even if he doesn't want to do something. That's a good lesson to teach kids.
Where has anyone said that he should have said yes to the sandwich?

emmyrose2000 · 12/08/2017 12:58

He's lucky the glass didn't break after he slammed it down. He was rude.

If he'd pulled that kind of stunt in my house, I'd have called you immediately to come and get him, and he'd never be invited to my home/party/event again.

The grandma was allegedly annoying, but that was absolutely no excuse to slam the glass down. Imagine how dangerous it would have been had the glass smashed.

number1wang · 12/08/2017 12:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

wanderings · 12/08/2017 12:59

He'd be handy for seeing off chuggers. (Sorry, I couldn't resist it, as it's been such a hot topic lately.)

And although he does need to learn a more polite way of saying no, I do think it is an important skill not to give in to repeated persuading.

I remember this being one reason of many I disliked being a child, because adults were allowed to say "no" firmly, but if I did it, it was "rude".

SerfTerf · 12/08/2017 12:59

The whole POINT of "No. I said no." or similar is to assert yourself POLITELY.

Albertschair · 12/08/2017 12:59

Of course child should be able to talk back to adults.

He needs to be taught socially acceptable ways to do it. And when it is appropriate to blow his top.

He is allowed not to eat if he doesn't want to.

We teach kids such conflicting things, is it any wonder they sometimes struggle?

In this case 'only eat till you are full. Monde likes a greedy child. If Simone mages something it is polite to take it. Dont waste food. Dont take something and leave it on your plate (eyes bigger than belly). Listen to other people. Do as you are told. Your body is your own. Learn how to say no to peer pressure. If someone says no they mean it (really important for young boys tho learn this). Oh but not if you say it. Keep calm don't shout. Don't accept sweets from a stranger"

Etc etc

Gran was rude. Kid was rude.

Gran was old enough to know better

Queenioqueenio · 12/08/2017 13:00

'I said no' is s great phrase to use if a peer is trying to push him around. Not great with an adult though, it's the context which was wrong. Maybe speak to him about appropriate ways to speak to adults.

Pollyann12 · 12/08/2017 13:00

Does he become unhinged often op?
If so I would look in to some help for him now while he's still young.

Sn0tnose · 12/08/2017 13:00

I understand how frustrating it can be when people aren't listening to you, but by reacting the way you have, you're teaching him that shouting and slamming things is the way to react to anyone who is annoying him. He's potentially going to have another 80 years of dealing with annoying people. If you don't equip him with the skills to deal with these people now, how do you think that's going to work out for him?

LAlady · 12/08/2017 13:00

My mum has a tendency to do this with my children. The normal response is to continue to respond with "no thank you".

You son was rude.

MessyBun247 · 12/08/2017 13:01

I wouldnt discipline him. He shouldnt have slammed a glass, but the lady should have taken no for an answer instead of trying to push him into taking a sandwich he didnt want. He's allowed to say no and assert himself, and shouldnt be forced to do something he doesnt want just because hes a child. Just teach him a politer way to say no. 'No honestly, I really dont want one, thanks for the offer'.

Anecdoche · 12/08/2017 13:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

KurriKurri · 12/08/2017 13:01

I'm not sure - as I child I was constantly offered food at other people's houses that I didn't like, I was taught that you take it and try your best to eat it. Maybe Granny is from my generation and that is how she was brought up so was shocked. (shocked more at his over reaction than the refusal)

I think now as an adult if a child said 'no thank you' my reply would be 'is there anything you would like instead of a sandwich' and if the answer was still know I'd leave them alone. Or put the sandwiches on the table and say 'well help yourself if you change your mind'

I think your DS reacted badly-banging a glass down is never acceptable. I had to eat a lot of things I didn't like as a child, because I as uber polite - I don't think that's necessarily the best thing either - but you do need to go through with your DS how to react in such situations - it is quite a common social scenario.

'no thank you I don't like sandwiches'

'No thanks, I'm not hungry'

Or as others have said - take one, nibble it and leave it.

notevernotnevernotnohow · 12/08/2017 13:01

This reply has been deleted

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faithinthesound · 12/08/2017 13:02

I think the rudest people in this equation are the people who didn't even bother to read the post in its entirety, just rushed to pile on and tell OP how rude her son is.

Why didn't you teach him to say "no, thank you"
She did teach him to say that, and he did say that. Repeatedly. While being ignored. To the point where he was having sandwiches literally waved in his face. Would this woman have pulled that on an adult? No, because an adult is old enough to stand up to her.

It wasn't an appropriate response
Sometimes defending oneself against an unfair onslaught doesn't always happen gracefully. Sure, you can talk to him about better ways to react in future, but THIS situation has already occurred, and it sounds to me like this boy did the best he could, being ten years old and being subjected to what sounds like a very stressful set of circumstances.

Now, to those in the cheap seats, those who are hard of hearing, and those who are hard of reading, let me lay out the situation as I see it:
I will grant that shouting and slamming glasses is not appropriate. But it takes two to tango, and if I'm to agree that OP's DS was in the wrong for shouting and slamming glasses, then I'm going to need you all to agree that this woman was equally in the wrong for not accepting that no means no. And no DOES mean no, whether you are a ten year old boy refusing a sandwich, a 21 year old young adult refusing a date, or a person in their forties refusing a drink (another thread on here recently, IIRC).
'
If you'd read the post, you wouldn't have come scuttling down to the "post reply" button to stick your bloody boot in. Jesus, he's TEN. Who among us was a social graces guru at ten?

NataliaOsipova · 12/08/2017 13:02

He was a guest and they were clearly concerned he wasn't eating.

This is a good point. If you have a child to your home for a meal, you feel obliged to ensure that they have had something to eat that constitutes whatever meal it is. If my child went for lunch and came back saying she'd had, say, 3 chocolate fingers and an iced bun and that alone, I would question the judgement of the other parent. So it's a bit different from offering food to a fussy or reluctant adult.