To not discipline DS for shouting at an adult

[riverotter]

DS(10) is normally quiet and quite polite. However, he can explode a bit if pushed.

He was at a friend's house last night and I picked him up at just after 8. The mum seemed a bit quiet and this morning she sent a text asking if we could talk so I called her.

Her version is that DS shouted and slammed a glass down on the table and it made everybody feel very uncomfortable. Obviously I asked what brought it on and she said it was because her mum, so his friend's grandma, had offered DS a sandwich!

So I spoke to DS. He started crying and said he did but he didn't really like any of them so kept saying no thank you, no thank you. But apparently the gran kept saying go on, have one, they are nice, I've been making these all afternoon. He said she was waving one in his face when he shouted 'no, I said no.' (I actually taught him that phrase a while back.)

So - discipline or not? I'm not sure how to deal with this. I hate rudeness but I hate people who won't say no for an answer as well.

I'd tell DSD off for slamming something down on the table. As for the shouting if the grandmother was persistent then I wouldn't tell her off.

If people are rude enough to push her boundaries eg continued tickling, insisting on food, hitting her -this applies to other kids and adults then I have told her to hourly loudly. No - I said No. Obviously a sandwich is not dangerous but go on, their nice, I've spent all day makin them etc is not nice either.

I'd also talk about how she might not get invited back. However, if grandma was so pushy it's not her fault.

He was rude but he's also a child. Those people saying 'but what if it was your husband' are missing the point.
An adult male should have learned to regulate his behaviour long ago. A child is still learning and will struggle or make a mistake sometimes especially in a situation where he feels cornered.
OP, he shouldn't have done it and I suggest you ask him to apologise. Simply because no matter how rude someone else is (and she was rude) children need to learn to control their temper.

He was rude.

But so was the grandmother.

Why is saying no to unwanted hospitality considered to be wrong, but constantly offering unwanted hospitality is not?

It's like the introvert/extrovert thing. It's rude for me to be anti-social and not want to talk to you on the train because I want to read/listen to music/go to sleep. But it's not rude for someone to keep wanting to speak to me?

He needs to learn that people can be very tedious under the guise of being polite. And not to overreact and as others have said, find a socially respectable way of saying "no". But I can totally see his point. And he's only 10, most adults are not perfectly polite all the time!

Yes he was rude but I am not sure disciplining is the way to go. He had tried to be polite by saying no thank you and was met by a pushy adult refusing to accept the choice.

However, I don't think k the phrase you have taught him is the right message. It is exceptionally rude and if a child or an adult said it to me they would be shown the door immediately. Maybe it would be better to equip him with polite phrases or god forbid the confidence to explain that he is sorry but he doesn't like the fillings offered and if possible could he have X that he does like... Although how the hell makes a table full of sandwiches without checking they are liked??

OP I would be making sure your son apologises to the friends mum and grandma and maybe you yourself should explain the situation to them?

Unfortunately you can't have it both ways.

If he is old enough to be allowed to refuse food because he doesn't like it, then he is old enough to be taught to do so in a polite fashion.

Tbh, as soon as I read your second sentence in the OP it was clear that this was going to be a case of mammy-blinkers in the face of bad behaviour. MrsJayy's comment is spot on.

I don't know what you mean by discipline him.

Take something away? Ground him?

I think this is a difficult one because we weren't there and as someone else said, his view of it may be different from the family's (did she really wave a sandwich in his face? Fucking loon if she did, but did it happen).

I am not on the side of those who seem to be saying "automatically disbelieve a child" (yeah, brilliant idea, that's how adults get away with abuse) but also not on the side of those who don't question a bit further exactly what was going on at that table.

If his version is true, then I think it's unreasonable of people to expect a 10 year old to have the maturity of a 20 year old when dealing with an adult who has no boundaries and won't take no for an answer. His response was wrong - shouting no, is not ideal but just about bearable because it's age appropriate for a child who is under a lot of stress (and let's not mistake it, he's trapped in someone's house with a loon trying to force him to eat, to us that might be quite trivial but to a 10 year old it probably feels like he's been captured by an enemy agent who is about to torture him for information he knows he doesn't have), but slamming the glass down was a step too far as it's dangerous and aggressive, not assertive. That's the thing I'd concentrate on, that sometimes adults are idiots too, but it's not acceptable to respond with aggression. And agree with those who say that it's an opportunity to talk through what the correct response would be.

As to discipline, sanctions etc. - I dunno mate, I don't feel we know enough about the event.

No means no, granny should have respected that.

Being able to stand up for yourself is more important than being polite sometimes.

If he cannot deal with a persistent offer without a temper tantrum, I would not be proud, I'd be mortified. Being upset and frustrated is one thing, but letting that out by shouting and slamming down a glass is not on.

Yes the lady was rude too, but his behaviour was needlessly aggressive in response.

Shocked at some of the responses here. It sounds like you taught him well up to the "I said no" point, but he didn't know how to cope when pushed beyond that. Good learning for him - as other have said, excusing himself to go to the loo or asking to go home would have been acceptable alternatives.

Otherwise, it was a bit rude to shout and slam, but if he really was pushed so rudely by the adults who did not accept "no thank you", then it sounds like frustration. Understandable when you're ten, some adults can't deal with it either! Crying when you asked him about it sounds like it upset him/played on his mind, so he knows already it wasn't an ideal situation. I'd be proud of him too OP, and I'm a right old moany bat when it comes to manners!

I wonder if there's any exaggeration on the other parents part as to him 'slamming' the glass on the table?

You generally trust the word of an adult, but I remember once getting into a world of shit with my mum based on the say so of a friend's mum, who had gone completely OTT at me one time. My mum drove me round to apologise in person the following day, which was particularly tricky as I didn't know what I was supposed to be appologising for so it just made my mum even angrier!

I find it interesting that the OP asks whether her DS should be disciplined. Really interesting if presented as a binary choice between being secretly pleased vs discipline.

Surely your the goal should be how DS should handle the situation in future?

I don't blame ds, is this family Mediterranean by in chance. This sounds exactly like my Armenian family, no means yes. They just don't get it when somebody says no thank you, it can be very tiring, at times I have had to raise my voice as I kept being offered food, when I clearly said no thank you several times. That is very rude! As the adult, they should be aware of what they are doing.

So no your sons reactions are not ideal, the host was very rude to keep offering and waving food in his face, after he said 'no thank you' several times to the grandma. NO he probably won't get invited again, but he might not encounter the same situation again. If he does, he will probably be a lot older and know how to deal with it in a better way.

I totally understand, it can be very wearing, and for a 10 year old child who kept being offered food against his wishes, annoying. How else are you going to get the message across, when you said no thank you several times!!

Let's remember it's only according to the ops ds that the gran kept going on and on about the sandwich.

To most kids, being asked would you like a sandwich, are you sure you don't want one & let me know if you want a sandwich, is going on and on.

I highly doubt she was waving a sandwich in his face.

He was very rude and I'd be furious that he slammed a glass down over it.

My son would have freaked out over this, too, and possibly lost his temper. The thing is, the gran was making it so that there was no polite way to deal with this other than accepting a sandwich, which your son didn't want to do. He was stuck, really, and any child who feels a bit self-conscious or anxious about this kind of situation is really going to struggle. The gran was rude, and insensitive to a guest. She made him feel uncomfortable and trapped. I'm not saying he should have reacted as he did, but fgs, he had politely declined several times and she carried on pushing - what was he meant to have done? As an adult, I would probably have ended up taking a sandwich I didn't want, and forcing my way through it while silently fuming. Children shouldn't be forced to politely eat things they don't like because someone won't listen to them.

I don't think discipline him is the way to go - he did what you told him to do, after all - but I do think you need to help him with managing his frustration and anger better.

I have a nearly 10yo who is mostly very polite but who is also going through a lot of frustration/anger etc. at the moment (mostly aimed at his 4yo brother) and it's trying to teach him to manage those feelings that matters most, IMO.

I can't bear it when people won't take no for an answer, especially repeatedly, so I have some sympathy with him - but he does need to find a way to deal with the feelings.

People are often annoying. Fact of life. If he has learnt to deal with that by shouting and slamming stuff about, well then he will end up miserable, because no-one will put up with it, in friendships, workplace, relationships etc. He's old enough to know better. Teach him the difference between assertion and aggression.

Dear how do you know, that this did not happen. Yes in my Armenian family, my Aunties would thrust food at me, especially as I was 'so thin, you need fattening up"

*assertiveness

Its very rude to keep asking and doing what the granny was doing. why did the mum not say, granny please don't the boy obviously doesn't want any!

Ds is 10. If he behaved like this I would be beyond furious.

*But I would no more have shouted at a friend's parent or grandparent than eaten the moon. Especially at 10. That really is marked

I didn't ask what you wouldn't do. I asked what you would do. What would you do having been repeatedly asked to eat a sandwich you didn't want?

It shows poor impulse control as he couldn't keep his calm and repeat 'no thank you'. Instead he acted aggressively.

In life he will meet other people who offer him things repeatedly. Some situations warrant 'no, I said no' but probably not sandwiches from someone's Granny.

No, he shouldn't be punished, he did nothing wrong. The grandmother needs to learn about consent, she was trying to force feed him, she was in the wrong not him.

I wish people would read the whole thread before commenting on posts and then judging the OP.
I don't think your son was rude, if your son has politely said no thank you the first few times and the friends grandma keeps shoving them in his face and making him feel guilty for not having a sandwich that "she has been making all day" then this obviously a response that your son did as he couldn't cope with the nagging anymore. As adults we probably could cope with this situation and handled it better but that wasn't the case for your son.

You know how some elders can be , I bet even if your son said ok to a sandwich if he didn't like it I bet the grandma would of had a go at him for not eating it then.

My MIL is the same with my kids and I hate them feeling pressured into having things forced upon them when they don't like it have politely said no thank you and they don't take no for an answer. My children then get upset but that is there response to it.

Everyone copes with things differently it just so happens your son had a glass in his hand at the time. It's not like he was disrespectful and chucked the glass on the floor or threw it at someone.

If that was child I would not allow them to go to their house again.

It.good that you spoke to your son and talk about rather than just jumping in and having a go at him. I don't know what else to suggest as your son sounded like he felt cornered, he couldn't just get up and walk out he wasn't at his own home so couldn't go anywhere to get away from sandwich waving grandma. I bet she didn't bother him.again after that.
Your friends family have just took it all out of proportion when it was there actions that were the cause of this out burst.

Agree with littlebrownbrownbag .