To ask what has gone wrong in the UK

[Mumof56]

I'm talking about the latest sex grooming case in Newcastle. It's the seventh large scale sex gang scandal to hit the UK after cases from towns including Rotherham, Rochdale, Oxford and Bristol

I have seen nothing on mumsnet about this (although maybe I've missed it). This is shocking and outrageous. How has this been allowed to happen in so many areas? What is the solution?

This is "rape culture". Where are the (peaceful) protests and the show of support for these girls?

So writing that we have a problem with Pakistani men abusing white girls, when the Pakistani population of the UK is 1.8 million people is ridiculous.

No, people such as Sarah Champion are saying that there is a specific issue with some Pakistani men, and that they are over represented, bear in mind that this data was collated before the recent spate of arrests of said gangs.

We have got into the exact situation that the right complain about, people are now arguing nuance and words rather than the underlying issue, yes she is a politician and should have worded it better.

What she said is objectively not untrue.

I don't think most female abuse within the Pakistani community are reported. Look at how women are treated in Pakistan, it's a lot worse than the UK, these traditions are kept. The UK didn't have honour killings and forced marriges. There is a problem, we need accept this, I also accept there is a problem with white men, it just seems more acceptable to talk about it.

It was collated in 2013 so will have included Rotherham, which may mean that in this particular instance they are over represented.

Do we talk about White men abusing girls? It certainly doesn't get the level of attention that Muslim men doing so does.

I also find it interesting that it is Sarah champion, a woman, who has been forced to resign when a quick Google shows several men saying the same thing including a police commissioner. How come they aren't being forced out of their jobs? Is this just another example of women being silenced?

I think Jimmy Saville did and the Catholic Church, if you put a thread on mumsnet about that no one would have any problems condemning it but if it's an ethnic minority people are scared of being called racist, which made the problem worse in the first place.

The problem certainly wasn't about ethnic minorities, as said previously the police have no problem arresting Asian men for other crimes. The issue was that they dismissed the girls and concerns about them, remember they said it was: " Lifestyle choices."

The problem certainly wasn't about ethnic minorities, as said previously the police have no problem arresting Asian men for other crimes. The issue was that they dismissed the girls and concerns about them, remember they said it was: " Lifestyle choices."

That's not what the official report into Rotherham concluded after looking at all the evidence. Of course, attitude towards the victims was a factor, but so was fear of being seen as being racist.

You haven't answered the question I posted above - would you be on here claiming that race or ethnicity wasn't a factor if there were gangs of white men in dozens of towns and cities around the country grooming and abusing specifically non white girls only?

They do that already, the Thai sex trade is full of white men who like to exploit little girls, lost of them British. It doesn't even make the front page when a white guy is convicted of it.

Race was A FACTOR, in Rotherham but not the only one, yet its the one that everyone talks about.

You could put a thread on mumsnet about white men and the sex trade in Thailand no one would have a problem discussing it.

There are far more links to other things other than race.

For example these gangs tend to be populated by men who work in the nightime economy.

Shall we have debate about the tendancy for taxi drivers and take away owners to rape young girls?

It was collated in 2013 so will have included Rotherham, which may mean that in this particular instance they are over represented.

So you agree that they are over represented then?

Do we talk about White men abusing girls? It certainly doesn't get the level of attention that Muslim men doing so does.

Yup, there is wide spread condemnation when things like Saville, Football coaches and the Catholic churches hit the headlines, there was no whataboutism being played out in any of those instances.

Your being wilfully obtuse.

I'm not. At no point did the race of the football coaches become the main issue.

There are far more links to other things other than race.

There are, but why are you trying to scapegoat it, people can address multiple issues at once.

It isn't just Rotherham that white working class girls where targeted because of cultural issues.

It's in the court papers, if the ethnicity where reversed I suspect that you would have no problem pointing out the racial aspect.

"Mohammed Shafiq, of the Ramadhan Foundation, which aims to promote better understanding between Muslims and non-Muslims, said: "Clearly, as members of the Pakistani community we've got to say to ourselves, yes, we've got a problem. We've got a problem because these people think white girls are worthless, they think they can use these girls."

^"Attacks in isolation and grooming tend to be perpetrated by white men. Collectively, the transferring of girls among young men for sex involves Pakistani men," he said.
"This is a significant problem and it's been going on for many years.
"Evidence tells us that there is a significant problem with Pakistani Asian men. We've got to be bold enough to stand up and say this is a problem and not let it get hijacked by the far right. It's only now that people are prepared to discuss this."^

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18004153

"Of the 306 offenders whose ethnicity was noted, 75 per cent were categorised as Asian, 17 per cent white, and the remaining 8 per cent black (5 per cent) or Arab (3 per cent)."

www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-grooming-gangs

Why are you trying to deflect and say that we cannot target all aspects?

At no point did the race of the football coaches become the main issue.

Because the football coaches didn't use alternative race/culture as a target.

If you can't discuss it there is a problem

I don't think its the culture thing that made them a target. Its avaibility, how do men working in the night time economy meet these children, and this is linked to their vulnerable status.

Shall we have debate about the tendancy for taxi drivers and take away owners to rape young girls?

Certainly, if you wish - although I can't help feeling you might find some of the circumstances inconvenient

You see, the majority of the taxi drivers in the areas where these groups have operated are in fact asian ...

Did you see the quote by one of the members to the ticket collector who gave evidence?

No Mum56 I didn't what did he say?

Puzzled, yes now that might be a correlation.

However, it turns out that there are a lot of taxi drivers who aren't Pakistani who have been convicted of sex charges.

This is what I mean, the race is one factor, but to make it the defining factor is incorrect.

@Lloyd45

“All white women are good for one thing, for men like me to f* and use as trash.”

Still doesn't mean you can say we have a problem with Pakistani men committing these crimes, as the vast majority don't.

it turns out that there are a lot of taxi drivers who aren't Pakistani who have been convicted of sex charges

Really? As mentioned above I didn't think the ONS gave stats on the race of offenders?

I'd be interested to hear about a "lot" of non asian taxi driver abusers though, if you could provide a link?

All you need to do is google taxi drive rape statistics . It comes up how many have been convicted etc.

But you know, that's not the statistic you want, its the race one you want to blame, its A factor, but not the defining factor. That is that all of these girls were vulnerable and this made them an easy target.