To ask what has gone wrong in the UK

[Mumof56]

I'm talking about the latest sex grooming case in Newcastle. It's the seventh large scale sex gang scandal to hit the UK after cases from towns including Rotherham, Rochdale, Oxford and Bristol

I have seen nothing on mumsnet about this (although maybe I've missed it). This is shocking and outrageous. How has this been allowed to happen in so many areas? What is the solution?

This is "rape culture". Where are the (peaceful) protests and the show of support for these girls?

The Asian women may keep quiet as they fear that they are to blame

They are to blame, they could bring shame and dishonour on their families, they are cursed by demons, they are being visited by God's displeasure.

There was an awful BBC article further up the thread about why South Asians have an awful cancer death rate.....

Abra, I agree. I think part of the issue is UK mosques have been Saudi or whatev4r that version is called which is actually quite rare abroad but seemed to get a hold in the UK so we ended up with in some cases a very "backward" version of Islam being taught. You get families where the mother wouldn't dream of covering up other than her head scarf but the teenage daughter's rebellion is full covering to the mother's dismay.

On the hassidic jew point above - they don't accept gays as someone mentioned and I am sure for feminist women it's pretty awful but sa someone said above if you are extremely busy all day praying etc then you don't get the chance to roam around. I think that may be part of the problem in all these groups - young men (it is usually men) who have nothing much to do - that is when they become trouble. If we could keep them busy it would be much better.

Abra - great posts, and very informative.

I think it's worth remembering that most religions have their fundamentalist elements. There are some very weird ideas among fundamentalist Christians imo.

Most Muslim communities are not fundamentalist though.

The problem here, and with many other cases, is that race is allowed to become the issue, when it isn't.

I'm sure someone else has already pointed out that the Police seem to have no problem arresting Muslim men/Asian men for any other crime, so why is it so different here?

Its an excuse, to cover up the fact that as with every other sex case, Savile, Catholic Church etc, vulnerable and poor young people were dismissed as not being beliveable by those with the responsibility to protect them.

Its passing the buck and drawing attention away from this point, which is a recurring theme in all of these cases, not the race of the perpetrator.

Last April, Radio 4 broadcast a two-part programme, The Deobandis (still available online), which gives an insight into the orthodox, influential and, arguably, isolationist movement in the UK.

The Deobandis Episode 1 www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06gqr66

It was enlightening for me, because it provided an explanation for my feeling that 'average Islam' in the UK has shifted towards being much more conservative than the Islam I grew up around.

I see that sarah champion has now resigned as a result of speaking out about this. Swept under the carpet once again

I see that sarah champion has now resigned as a result of speaking out about this. Swept under the carpet once again

The alt left have a lot to answer for.

Alt left? I don't think using such "trumpisms" is helpful tbh.

Sarah Champion's article was guff tbh.

Over 90% of those convicted of sex offences are White British men, they are over represented, but we don't have articles saying we have a problem with white british men.

Sarah Champion's article was guff tbh. It really wasn't.

It really was, considering the statistics on who the main perpatrators of sex crimes are, and how they are over reprsented.

White British men, Let's kill them all

It really was, considering the statistics on who the main perpatrators of sex crimes are, and how they are over reprsented.

It was, the over representation of 1.8% of the population relating to these specific crimes is something that should be tackled along with other aspects, it shouldn't be a no go subject.

But I guess you was trying to be smart about a country with 87% white population and instigating whataboutry.

Race and culture are factors.

It's not about looking at the problem through a 'racist lense'. It's about acknowledging cultural problems which contribute to the issue.

INB4 whatabout MEN, WHITEMEN, SAVILLE, CATHOLIC CHURCH !!!11111

Yes, the race issue is focused on by people of a certain disposition, they then try to turn it round to something else.

87% of people in the UK are white, but 90% of all sex crimes are comitted by white men.

So what cultural problems bring that about? Why is it ?

See, you only want to have discussions about culture and race when it suits your prejudices.

In all of the recent sexual abuse cases there has been a recurrant theme, and it isn't about race or culture.

Is it really shocking? I certainly wasn't surprised but maybe that's because I grew up with a lot of stereotypical Muslim men so I can easily see it happening.

87% of people in the UK are white, but 90% of all sex crimes are comitted by white men.

I see your expanding the stats to include all sex crimes, Sarah Champion was talking about a specific issue.

See, you only want to have discussions about culture and race when it suits your prejudices.

Some people are racist against Pakistani men. Some people are racist against white girls. I'm not sure that I care what particular rationalisations each group prefer. Trying to create a narrative to explain the badness just makes people more divided.

Saying British men commit rape is unnecessary because it's just stating the truth, no one's questioning that from any political stand point.

Saying British Pakistani men disproportionately abuse young girls is also true, but for reasons of political correctness, and possibly for purely political reasons we are not allowed to do so, even if young girls are put at risk.

But please carry on, when the MP for Rotherham is sacked don't think that its more fuel to the fire of the hard right in thinking that its a no go subject.

Please can I ask where these statistics about the race/colour of sex crime perps comes from? Only the ONS site says they "do not publish data on the perpetrators of crime"

Apparently there's some available from the Ministry of Justice which takes info from court databases, but of course this can only work for those who have actually been prosecuted, so may or may not be representative

So just where are the quoted figures coming from?

So again you've missed the point and made it all about race.

Its not that these views can't be aired, every right wing news paper airs them all the time, but telling yourself that you can't say them makes you think you are being persecutedd.

British Pakistani men don't disproportionally abuse young girls, there is a tendancy for them to do so in a way that attracts attention from the media.

Bathilda rtft

You will find much analysis of the bigger picture and the fact that a blind eye was turned by those in authority. Like it or not though race has to be discussed as part of the bigger picture as in these specific cases the abusers were groups of Asian men. To not analyse possible causes of this is ridiculous.

The causes of this are the same as they were for Savile and the Catholic church. The victims were not believed, they were thought of as "slappers" or liars.

The constant referal to race in this issue fails to note that sex crimes are disproptionately inflicted on poor and vulnerable young women.

Which has been discussed in the thread if you read it and I totally agree with. And Catholic priests/ vile TV stars and why they abused have also been previously discussed in lots of places as infinitum. You cannot ignore race entirely.

The CEOP carried out a study in 2013

For this type of crime Type 4 contact child sexual abuse the say:

Ethnicity descriptors remain imprecise and as not all police forces responded to CEOP’s information request, the data is
incomplete. Using broad groupings, all ethnicities were represented in the sample, however, a disproportionate number of
offenders were reported as Asian. Of the 52 groups for which usable ethnicity data was provided, 26 (50%) comprised all
Asian offenders, 11 (21%) all white offenders, 9 (17%) groups comprised offenders from multiple ethnicities, 4 (8%) comprised
all black offenders and there were 2 (4%) groups of exclusively Arab offenders. Of the 306 offenders whose ethnicity was
provided for type 1 offending, a total of 75% were categorised as Asian, 17% were categorised as white, and the remaining
8% were categorised as black (5%) or Arab (3%)

Type 1 is The proliferation of indecent images of children (IIOC)

So using the data for that, it shows that its a tiny proportion of people who comitt these crimes.

So writing that we have a problem with Pakistani men abusing white girls, when the Pakistani population of the UK is 1.8 million people is ridiculous.

bathilda If there were organized gangs of white British men around the country specifically targeting only Non white girls (let's not forget that these gangs also targeted sikhs and Hindu girls) for grooming and abuse, simply because of their views towards non white girls, would you or anyone else be on here saying that race isn't a factor? Would people be at risk of losing their jobs if they named the problem? Personally I think it's highly doubtful