Are you a feminist?

[NoLoveofMine]

Yes or no...

The advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes.

This then yes.

@Bertrand

Rape doesn't have to have consequence. It is morally wrong and a heinous crime against the self.

Also, a woman tricking a man into sex and becoming pregnant as a result is a serious consequence. The man has not consented to becoming a father.

Using lies, deceit and coercion to obtain sex is morally wrong and equivalent, regardless of one being a man or a woman.

I'm not sure why some people are so keen to extend the definition of rape so that is includes women as perpetrators......I have my suspicions, but they are perhaps unworthy..........

@Bertrand

Because we are feminists and believe in equality.

Having sex with someone without their consent is rape. It shouldn't matter if it's a man or a woman.

Also I could say the opposite. Why are some women so against the idea of extending the definition of rape to include women? Misandry maybe?

"Also, a woman tricking a man into sex and becoming pregnant as a result is a serious consequence. The man has not consented to becoming a father."

Of course. As I said earlier. But the man does not have to deal with the potential pregnancy. There are no physical consequences for the man. He does not have to carry and birth a baby and decide on what happens next. Alternatively, he foes not have to go through an abortion. There might be moral equivalence in the initial act, but the impact on the victim is hugely different.

"Also I could say the opposite. Why are some women so against the idea of extending the definition of rape to include women? Misandry maybe?"

Not at all. I just think that non consensual penetration with a penis is a crime which needs a specific name. Because of the ramifications of the act. Penetration with objects is not rape, whether a man does it or a woman does it.

@Bertrand

So a rape where the perpetrator where a condom is less severe because that removes the physical consequences or sti or pregnancy.

Surely that can't be what you mean because that is essentially what you are saying

Well no, because the potential is still there.
The potential that consenting couples are aware of when they consent, and they agree is an acceptable risk.

@Bert you should add "in England" to that

In Ireland, it is rape.

www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1990/act/32/section/4/enacted/en/html
n this Act “rape under section 4 ” means a sexual assault that includes—

(a) penetration (however slight) of the anus or mouth by the penis, or

(b) penetration (however slight) of the vagina by any object held or manipulated by another person.

@Thephoney

That's a very interesting point you've made.

You can't trick a man into getting you pregnant, if he doesn't want to.

You can trick a woman into it, even if she doesn't want to.

In one situation he can risk assess and make a decision, in the other she can't.

A man has unprotected sex with a woman only because she tells him she is on the pill. She is lying. She is not on the pill.

How is that not tricking a man into getting you pregnant?

Because he has an option. He can mitigate the risk.

The man always has a choice.

Reproductive coercion is a form of domestic violence. The three forms of reproductive coercion are pregnancy pressure, pregnancy coercion, and birth control sabotage;

But where has anyone said that reproductive coercion is okay? All anyone has said is that it isn't rape?

Ah well, thread's nearly full now so

That's interesting mum. What does birth control sabotage consist of?

What I mean is, how do you sabotage a man's own attempts to not impregnate a woman?

Smiling at the thought that I'm middle class and that ponies were on my radar. (My Dad did tell me that when he started down the pits at 15, they still used ponies then).

Or unsuccessful in my career.

Or married to a wrong 'un.

Reproductive coercion is related to behavior that interferes with contraception use and pregnancy (1). The most common forms of reproductive coercion include sabotage of contraceptive methods, pregnancy coercion, and pregnancy pressure. Birth control sabotage is active interference with a partner’s contraceptive methods in an attempt to promote pregnancy
m.acog.org/Resources-And-Publications/Committee-Opinions/Committee-on-Health-Care-for-Underserved-Women/Reproductive-and-Sexual-Coercion?IsMobileSet=true

So a man removing a condom at the last minute is reproductive coercion?

And the woman not taken the contraception pill is not her actively interfering in her partners attempts to avoid pregnancy