to have said she's raising psychopaths.

[OohMavis]

My friend and I have fallen out.

She has zero empathy for any type of animal or living thing other than herself and her children, basically. I find that utterly baffling and quite upsetting, and I don't think I'm unreasonable in that respect, but I might have overstepped a mark a bit by saying this, and I want some opinions.

She was here yesterday with her two children so our children could play together. They were playing in the garden, we were sitting out with them, chatting. DD came running to me, excited, saying she'd found a really big beetle, asking for me to come and see. She's 3 and obsessed with mini beasts. My friend's children overheard and came to see too. They ran ahead of me and my friend followed behind, by the time we'd arrived her son had STOMPED on this beautiful stag beetle (I think) and killed it

DD was so fucking upset. Honestly, it was just such an unecessary thing to do. The kid is 7. It's inexcusable. I reacted, raised my voice a bit and said "Why did you do that?!" he just laughed and said he wanted to stand on it. I said that's a really nasty thing to do. Then bent down to see if he'd 'popped its head off'. He had, he was quite pleased with himself. His mother said nothing, I looked at her for a response and got a half-shrug.

DD was in tears by this point so I took her back to where we were sitting and friend joined me. I was comforting DD. She said, "I think they get it from me, they just don't like animals"
I replied, "well that's fine but they shouldn't kill them"
"Well it's not like it was a cat or something"
And this is where I got a bit angry and said "yes well it starts off that way doesn't it, with that attitude you're raising two psycopaths"

She was obviously offended. Sat there for twenty more minutes with a look on her face before making an excuse and leaving, awkwardly. Got a text later saying she thought I was completely out of order calling her kids psycopaths, kids step on insects and I'm overreacting. I didn't reply. She texted again telling me I'm a hypocrite since I'm not even vegetarian and she doesn't think she'll be coming again.

WIBU to mention the word psychopath. I was angry, it may have been over the top, but I still think it.

Argh sorry I meant teach compassion but I think I changed my mind halfway through writing and put be compassionate.

It's important to teach and be compassionate.

Which your friend clearly isn't.

It doesn't mean her kids will be psychopaths.

Twats, possibly. But not necessarily psychopaths which I believe is a recognised mental health condition

YANBU it was cruel and spiteful, its about respect for other living things.

I would probably reply to her text saying with her attitude and her childrens behaviour they are not welcome at your home but I am a bit of a cow like that.

Stag beetles are a protected species, maybe point that out to her as well;

link

I do think teaching respect for living creatures is important.

Maybe the leap to psychopath was a big leap, but at 7, that was a nasty thing to do to your 3 year old.

I'd be happy to severe ties TBH. Cannot be dealing with zero empathy.

I knew a little boy who used to fry ants with a magnifying glass
He is now in prison for beating up his wife and kids

To label a child a psychopath to me is very disturbing. Takes a little more than stepping on a bug to create a psychopath,it's not nice to kill anything so this is the discussion that should of taken place between the ADULTS

The conversation did take place between the adults. The OP didn't call the child a psychopath to his face. She had the conversation with his mother - who thinks his behaviour was absolutely fine.

Her kid sound disturbed, probably a good thing you pointed it out

Kids do stupid stuff, act silly and make weird comments sometimes, but it was her job as a mother to tell him that the behaviour was unacceptable and it's not okay to kill things for fun because that's not very kind, psychopath is a strong word but very reasonable for this situation

I'm always dubious about people who don't like animals. YANBU. He's a little shit and he's just gonna get worse. You are best rid of them. I would have been livid if I saw that happen.

Oh my goodness. She is setting an appalling example to her children. I don't like dogs but hide it from my kids. I teach them empathy to all
Animals. Why would you not want your kids to understand this? How fucked up.

Why is making assumptions about a child's behaviour based on their sex any worse than calling a child's bad behaviour psychopathic? Both are ridiculous so there's no point deflecting onto that.

So its not on to kill a beetle for fun, but totally fine to kill a pig because you like the taste of it (and pigs are known to be as intelligent as dogs). Its OK to eat a chicken because you like the taste of it, but not for a cat (a obligate carnivore) to kill a pigeon??

The only difference is that you prefer to hide your eyes and those of your children from the cruelty of your lifestyle, and to have it done on your behalf in secret. Eating a pork chop causes far more suffering than quickly killing a beetle. You lack logic (and, yes, I'm a vegan).

I prefer animals to children tbh so I will always be biased but my friends son liked trying to pull my cat's tail and found it hilarious. She refused to tell him off so I asked her to take in home and have not asked him back.

No point dealing with people who think that sort of behavior is acceptable

Well I for one am CHEERING you OP.

Stag beetles are a protected species, although I suppose it's not a given that anyone would know that.

In any case, whilst the psychopath label was a bit strong, you didn't CALL them psychopaths you said she was (at risk of) RAISING psychopaths. And I think you are right - lack of empathy and compassion are common early traits, many a serial killer started with insects and small animals.

At least you had the balls and the integrity to stand up for what you believe in, at the risk of losing that friendship.

YANBU. Her kids sound spiteful and cruel.

OP I like you very much 👏👏

Killing spiders is different, people do it because they're scared of them, not for a laugh.

YANBU OP they sound horrible.

Your reaction was completely reasonable, OP.

And I think you may be literally right (though I hope not). Children have cruel impulses. But when their parents shrug them off, justify them, or even encourage them ("they don't like animals, like me"), then the outcome won't be pretty.

He stamped on an insect. Who hasn't stamped on an insect at some point in their lives? I don't suppose, at 7, he appreciated the ecological value of a stag beetle.

She stuck in the 'not even veggie' comment because I was a vegetarian for 8 years until quite recently, and have nasty pangs of guilt whenever I eat meat.

You can judge me for that if you want, I judge myself, but eating meat doesn't mean you're not entitled to be upset when someone kills something in front of you for no reason other than they wanted to see it die.

harsh as I'm not vegan, I obviously don't mind killing animals, that doesn't make me want to go watch a bull fight, or hunt and kill a lion, poison my neighbours cat or beat my dog.

I save worms if I find them on the pavement, I've rehomed abused dogs, should I stop now as I eat chicken?

You obviously gave your (ex)friend something to think about and it must have bothered her or she wouldn't have texted you. If she has any sense at all she'll think about it a bit more and consider her reaction to her kids' behaviour.

Unreasonable to use the word psychopath so lightly. Also, young kids to "experinent" with killing little beetles sometimes. I did as a kid, with friends. Certainly not with adults around. It's not a nice thing to witness but it doesn't make them psychopaths.

Having said that, she sounds awful. I can't believe she didn't correct her DC. It doesn't sound like you will be missing much by cutting her out of your life.

Your poor DD. You sound like a good parent.

He didn't just step on a bug, he stamped on a beetle in its natural environment (not in the house) not because he was scared of it or careless but possibly because another child was excited about it and because he wanted to see and enjoy the mutilation he had caused to it. Then he showed no remorse or any understanding that it was not a good thing to do.

It's not so much that the child stamped on an insect, it's the fact the Mother did nothing to correct the behaviour.

I'm not perfect myself as I have a tennis racket that fries flys and I quite enjoy watching them crackle but would I seek out an animal to murder. My children are taught to be kind and if I saw one of them stamping on an insect or killing a bee I would be furious sbdcthry wouldn't do it again. Shrugging your shoulders is unacceptable.

What a vile thing to do. Apart from the fact he really upset your child, it was just violence for the sake of it. He wasn't scared. He didn't feel threatened. He did it because he's bigger and because he could.

I couldn't be friends with someone with that attitude.

harshbutrue has hit the nail on the head. The lot of you, unless you don't eat meat, are hypocrites. A stag beetle is an insect, not an animal. It wasn't a nice thing he did but take a look at yourselves. As I have said before, I'm veggie and choose not to eat animals because I find it cruel. However, a little boy stamping on an insect is not even close to stunning a cow with an electric bolt, hanging it upside down, slitting its throat and then eating it. That's after the shit life it has had. Actually, OP, if you eat meat, I think you might be a psychopath (joke)