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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to have said she's raising psychopaths.

568 replies

OohMavis · 05/08/2017 19:22

My friend and I have fallen out.

She has zero empathy for any type of animal or living thing other than herself and her children, basically. I find that utterly baffling and quite upsetting, and I don't think I'm unreasonable in that respect, but I might have overstepped a mark a bit by saying this, and I want some opinions.

She was here yesterday with her two children so our children could play together. They were playing in the garden, we were sitting out with them, chatting. DD came running to me, excited, saying she'd found a really big beetle, asking for me to come and see. She's 3 and obsessed with mini beasts. My friend's children overheard and came to see too. They ran ahead of me and my friend followed behind, by the time we'd arrived her son had STOMPED on this beautiful stag beetle (I think) and killed it Angry

DD was so fucking upset. Honestly, it was just such an unecessary thing to do. The kid is 7. It's inexcusable. I reacted, raised my voice a bit and said "Why did you do that?!" he just laughed and said he wanted to stand on it. I said that's a really nasty thing to do. Then bent down to see if he'd 'popped its head off'. He had, he was quite pleased with himself. His mother said nothing, I looked at her for a response and got a half-shrug.

DD was in tears by this point so I took her back to where we were sitting and friend joined me. I was comforting DD. She said, "I think they get it from me, they just don't like animals"
I replied, "well that's fine but they shouldn't kill them"
"Well it's not like it was a cat or something"
And this is where I got a bit angry and said "yes well it starts off that way doesn't it, with that attitude you're raising two psycopaths"

She was obviously offended. Sat there for twenty more minutes with a look on her face before making an excuse and leaving, awkwardly. Got a text later saying she thought I was completely out of order calling her kids psycopaths, kids step on insects and I'm overreacting. I didn't reply. She texted again telling me I'm a hypocrite since I'm not even vegetarian Hmm and she doesn't think she'll be coming again.

WIBU to mention the word psychopath. I was angry, it may have been over the top, but I still think it.

OP posts:
AnneGrommit · 05/08/2017 20:47

Are you sure it was a stag beetle? They're pretty big. I mean, size of a large rat big. He would have struggled to stamp on it.

Anyway yabu. I kill spiders, wasps and mosquitoes. I have yet, at the grand old age of 45, to follow what some on this thread have said is the natural path designated by this to progress to drowning kittens and puppies or indeed to chopping up the neighbours and putting them in bin bags.

What the child did was mean and you were right to pull him and his mum up on it. You crossed a massive line by calling a child a psychopath though and you also made yourself look a bit silly.

BubbleLamp · 05/08/2017 20:48

YANBU

Bet the kid turns into a very unpleasant adult.

Scaredycat3000 · 05/08/2017 20:48

It's got fuck all to do with boys being boys, SIL excuses her DD by saying she's spirited, no you're training up a nasty human being!

Scaredycat3000 · 05/08/2017 20:50

size of a large rat big Hahahahahaha, no they're not, average size in reality is 3/4 inches.

Awwlookatmybabyspider · 05/08/2017 20:50

Anne. May I ask what right you think you have to kill these creatures.
They have just as much to live as you do.

Scaredycat3000 · 05/08/2017 20:50

Sorry 3 to 4 inches.

Optimist1 · 05/08/2017 20:51

According to Wiki, they're not usually as big as you say, Anne (although you could come from somewhere that has particularly petite rats!) - Some species grow up to over 12 cm, but most are about 5 cm.

DeadGood · 05/08/2017 20:52

I think you had a point - however, calling her kids psychopaths was fairly extreme, and she now thinks you were just being really unkind and will cut you off.

Whereas if you'd said something more measured, it might have had more of an impact on her.

blankface · 05/08/2017 20:53

I once saw a snail crossing the quiet narrow road outside my house. A teen lad guess about 15 walking on the opposite side saw the snail, ran over to it and stomped on it a couple of times. Then he took out his phone and filmed the snail dying, he was grinning and enjoying every minute. I found his behaviour very cruel and his obvious enjoyment very disturbing.

I hoped for a large vehicle to approach at speed and squash him, sadly no such luck. Eventually he walked off, but I was sickened to my stomach by what I'd seen him do. I too wondered about him being a psychopath.

OP, your friend needs to stop her boys taking pleasure in watching birds and animals die, it's not a natural human reaction to find that enjoyable.

Well done for speaking up, I'd not want to socialise with her or her children again.

WishfulThanking · 05/08/2017 20:53

YANBU

I don't understand all this pearl clutching over the word 'psychopath'... it's not even as you you directly called him it. Mumsnet is an alternate universe Hmm

You are well rid of this family. She and her children sound awful.

RedStripeHoliday · 05/08/2017 20:53

Size of a large rat Grin

YWNBU horrible behaviour that should have been dealt with. Dd is big on mini beasts too. She gets a bit to hands on with them but doesn't mean to hurt them.

AnneGrommit · 05/08/2017 20:54

Ok fair enough I've only ever seen one and it was fucking huge - me and my friend thought it was an alien!

Original poster
OohMavis · 05/08/2017 20:54

It was about 10cm, I googled it and it looked like a stag beetle, if not very similar. I'd never seen one before, DD was amazed.

If it was the size of a large rat, I don't think she'd have been quite so excited...

OP posts:
Mrscropley · 05/08/2017 20:55

Good for you op - maybe they aren't quite in the psychopath category just yet but could be heading that way if dm is seen to be actually approving of the behaviour by her refusal to reprimand them.

Most serial killers start off with animal cruelty. .
The lads who killed Jamie Bulger were young dc. It does happen.

You are sensible to be keeping away. .

Scaredycat3000 · 05/08/2017 20:56

There was a nest in my primary school, if one was found it would be brought round all the classrooms to show us. Watching them fly around outside our Brixton flat was quite impressive. OH told me they were a myth, he lived in the flat with me Grin Took ages to persuade him, I think I found a dead one in the end.

Lanaorana2 · 05/08/2017 20:57

Ugh. Her kids will fail. The world won't tolerate what Mummy does.

poweredbybread · 05/08/2017 20:58

I am with you on this one. I don't like it when kids do this and have a twinkle in their eye while doing it. Have told said children it is wrong. What the fuck is wrong with some people.

LaContessaDiPlump · 05/08/2017 21:00

I'd have felt exactly the same as you op, but wouldn't have been brave enough to say so. I'm vegan so I guess people expect it more from me, although I was the same when I ate meat tbf. It's just wanton cruelty/lack of empathy, isn't it - I don't see how that can ever be a desirable quality in a person.

Hygge · 05/08/2017 21:00

MyWhatICallNameChange - I agree.

I have a boy. He's very careful with insects and creatures, he moves worms and snails off the path for safety, he is and always has been very respectful and careful of things.

It's not what boys do, or what kids do. It's not. It's what some do, but don't tar them all with the same brush. I once saw a group of teens kicking what I hope was an already dead bird about on the street like it was a football. They thought it was hilarious. Eventually one of them stamped on it and then swore because it got blood on his shoes. They were in school uniform so I rang their school, but they couldn't have cared less about what the children were doing. It still wouldn't be okay for me to imply all teens or all the children at that school were so vile and callous just because a small group of them were behaving so disgustingly.

Stepping on something by accident can't always be avoided, but deliberately running to look at a beetle just to deliberately stamp on it and then to be so pleased (in this boys case) and so indifferent (in his mothers) is not what all children are like.

Bizarre about the pigeon too. OP Perhaps your comment hit home with her not just because you called her children potential psychopaths but because she behaves that way herself. Who could watch, and let their children watch, an animal being slowly tortured and torn apart?

Gabilan · 05/08/2017 21:00

A stag beetle is an insect, not an animal

You need to look up the definition of animal. Vegans will generally avoid things like honey and foods dyed red using cochineal insects.

I mean, size of a large rat big

Oh dear lord. No they aren't. The thought of stag beetles the size of rats is quite terrifying, but fortunately biologically improbable given insects' respiratory systems and the current oxygen content of the atmosphere.

Anyway, OP. I think your (ex) friend is potentially bringing up nasty bullies but it's something of a leap to full-blown psychopathy. I wouldn't want to be close friends with her but I think you could have handled it better - easy to say when you're not there in the heat of the moment.

AnneGrommit · 05/08/2017 21:01

Urk. I hope you didn't sleep with the windows open, scaredycat. The one we saw was in the car park at work in West London one day. It honestly was enormous. One of the guys who grew up in the countryside told us what it was as we were quite freaked out. No idea how he got there but he was a very impressive looking fellow. (The beetle, that is. The colleague got the 8.21 from Guildford.)

LaContessaDiPlump · 05/08/2017 21:02

Clarification: when I say people expect it more from me, I mean they expect me to find such behaviour awful - not to find me stamping on beetles!!

Voiceforreason · 05/08/2017 21:04

You might not be so wide of the mark op because I am sure I have read that serial abusers frequeny start off with insects then animals.

Scaredycat3000 · 05/08/2017 21:06

Ground flour Anne, stag beetles would have been the least of my worries if I had my windows open! OH is from the countryside and insisted they were a myth Confused

Jaimx86 · 05/08/2017 21:08

Blankface, that anecdote has really upset me. What a horrid person!
A couple of days ago I saw a woman that had spotted a large cicada in a young, delicate looking tree. Rather than leave it be, she started to shake the beautiful tree and try to get it to fly off. I was furious and approached her and she walked off; unfortunately we were in a place where few people speak English so I didn't tell her what I thought of her.

OP, YANBU!