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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to have said she's raising psychopaths.

568 replies

OohMavis · 05/08/2017 19:22

My friend and I have fallen out.

She has zero empathy for any type of animal or living thing other than herself and her children, basically. I find that utterly baffling and quite upsetting, and I don't think I'm unreasonable in that respect, but I might have overstepped a mark a bit by saying this, and I want some opinions.

She was here yesterday with her two children so our children could play together. They were playing in the garden, we were sitting out with them, chatting. DD came running to me, excited, saying she'd found a really big beetle, asking for me to come and see. She's 3 and obsessed with mini beasts. My friend's children overheard and came to see too. They ran ahead of me and my friend followed behind, by the time we'd arrived her son had STOMPED on this beautiful stag beetle (I think) and killed it Angry

DD was so fucking upset. Honestly, it was just such an unecessary thing to do. The kid is 7. It's inexcusable. I reacted, raised my voice a bit and said "Why did you do that?!" he just laughed and said he wanted to stand on it. I said that's a really nasty thing to do. Then bent down to see if he'd 'popped its head off'. He had, he was quite pleased with himself. His mother said nothing, I looked at her for a response and got a half-shrug.

DD was in tears by this point so I took her back to where we were sitting and friend joined me. I was comforting DD. She said, "I think they get it from me, they just don't like animals"
I replied, "well that's fine but they shouldn't kill them"
"Well it's not like it was a cat or something"
And this is where I got a bit angry and said "yes well it starts off that way doesn't it, with that attitude you're raising two psycopaths"

She was obviously offended. Sat there for twenty more minutes with a look on her face before making an excuse and leaving, awkwardly. Got a text later saying she thought I was completely out of order calling her kids psycopaths, kids step on insects and I'm overreacting. I didn't reply. She texted again telling me I'm a hypocrite since I'm not even vegetarian Hmm and she doesn't think she'll be coming again.

WIBU to mention the word psychopath. I was angry, it may have been over the top, but I still think it.

OP posts:
mynameisnotmichaelcaine · 08/08/2017 07:59

My DS is 11, and cried the other day when he accidentally squashed a tiny fly. DD, on the other hand, used to stomp on insects quite regularly. I used to tell her off because it's mean. If she'd had done it purposely to upset a younger child, she'd have been up to bed with no screens for the next day. Completely unacceptable behaviour. I hate deliberate meanness in all its forms.

Writermom22 · 08/08/2017 08:37

Cut her off and block her. You did nothing wrong.

StrangeLookingParasite · 08/08/2017 08:50

Hygge have you been by your child's side each second of every minute of everyday? The whole "my child would never do that" is just slightly incredulous. You assuming your child doesn't have these tendencies amuses me. Good luck!

So Just how many of us are you now trying to say are lying? Who do you think you are?

Mittens1969 · 08/08/2017 08:52

For me, it's the lack of empathy that's worrying, for the beetle, the OP's DD, the pigeon and the NDN. It paints a picture and I can see where the word 'psychopath' came from. We can debate whether the word was appropriate, but it was uttered in the heat of the moment.

Bubwiser · 08/08/2017 09:17

I think a 7 year old can't be blamed for this behaviour, but his parent certainly should be managing it and clearly isn't.

This.

I must admit, I was a horrid little child and did unspeakable things to creepy crawlies. I didn't grow up to be a psychopath though (at least, I don't think so). The mum is the one to blame, for normalising his behaviour, especially when your DD was so upset. You are well rid of her.

NewDaddie · 08/08/2017 09:25

YANBU

It might just be a bug but killing for pure enjoyment is a psychopath trait.
I would have disciplined my own child before you had to say anything.

The other mother does have a point too though. But in that situation I'd be a bit more thick-skinned & tell you you're raising self-entitled, prissy hypocrites rather than getting over upset about it.

Persistentdonor · 08/08/2017 09:27

Get that revolting little tyke visited by The People's Trust for Endangered Species.
Stag beetles are a protected species because their numbers are declining across Europe and they are now extinct in some countries. In the southern parts of the UK they are doing much better but they still need our help.

People's Trust for Endangered Species, 3 Cloisters House, 8 Battersea Park Road, London SW8 4BG. Registered Charity Number: 274206

BitOfANameChange · 08/08/2017 09:45

For me, it's not the stamping on the beetle that's the main issue, although that's regrettable with the beetle being protected. It's that this child took pleasure in doing so, including in his desire to upset OP's DD. I'm not sure psychopath is too strong a word.

Jedimum1 · 08/08/2017 10:55

She didn't call the kids psychopath, she told the mum that with that parenting she would raise psychopaths. Whether accurate or not, the fact is that it's the parenting she questioned. This mum hasn't been teaching kids about respect for living things or respect for other kids' feelings. On the cat an pigeon compared to a documentary / zoo... Seriously? If I see the lion clearly torturing and ripping apart a smaller prey, I don't think I'd watch for an hour until it finished it off, not let my kids watch it for the whole duration of the attack. I'd explain about nature and the notion of prey / food, but if I am not able to stop it I wouldn't certainly make myself comfortable and sit to watch with the kids! Heck, if I see a squashed animal that has been run over by a car, I don't point at it either! Why would you make a spectacle of that? She should definitely have said something to the kid. One, on intending to upset your daughter, who was running excited to you so you could see it and him stepping on it before you got there; two, on killing it and then checking if head has popped out, congratulating himself because it did; third, on just laughing it off after seeing how it affected your daughter. That proves that he did it knowing it would upset her. OP, get rid!

Mittens1969 · 08/08/2017 11:17

@Jedimum1, That's exactly what I mean! I do my best to keep the sight of prey animals away from my DDs, and discretely dispose of them. The one time they saw the corpse of a dead bird which one of our cats had brought into the house, they freaked out; they love the cats but not that aspect of a cat's behaviour.

Treating it like a floor show is quite disturbing in my view.

strawberrisc · 08/08/2017 12:22

Yes I know this is an extreme example but John Venables and Robert Thompson tortured animals befor kidnapping James Bulger.

www.allaboutanimals.org.uk/PT-TheLink.asp

awaits backlash

NewDaddie · 08/08/2017 12:27

No backlash from me @strawberrisc

CRAZZZYLADY40 · 08/08/2017 14:44

i would have lost the plot too. I think its very sad when people don't see the wonder of all living things, kids should be fascinated by nature like your little one not spiteful and malice like your friends son.
As a parent its our job to teach our children right from wrong, whether mum has any empathy or not she still should have said something, what's she going to do when its the next doors pigeons or the family cat ??
i would personally give anyone who didn't like animals a wide birth...very strange people indeed!!

Miranda15110 · 08/08/2017 15:06

Killing and torturing animals is a common theme in childhood amongst psychopaths. They're prob just horrid little shits though.

Mittens1969 · 08/08/2017 15:47

The criticism was really directed at the friend's parenting. She was angry that the friend didn't sanction her children's behaviour, allowed her 7 year old DS to bully her 3 year old DD. That would piss me off too.

dotdotdot3 · 08/08/2017 15:56

I think you did the right thing. The kids sound vile.

Badhairbigarse · 08/08/2017 19:05

I can't believe that a seven year old has been called a potential psychopath, vile, a little shit, horrible.

Says more about the people saying those things than the child.

PowerPantsRule · 08/08/2017 19:39

I can't believe how blase and cruel some of you are. Does an insect not deserve a life? What are you all teaching your children - that if something is defenceless and smaller than you, it's OK to kill it? REALLY?

The "It's just a bug" comments are astonishing. It's nothing to do with veganism, it's about a state of mind. Be kind. Treat others (including animals) in the way in which you would like to be treated. It's not hard!!

Atenco · 08/08/2017 20:00

"I can't believe how blase and cruel some of you are. Does an insect not deserve a life?"

I personally try to respect all lives, but at the moment I have a cockroach invasion and the mosquitoes are eating my dgd alive.

The child has not been taught to have empathy for insects, end of. He is not a psychopath and he may well catch on later in life. But I'm afraid the extremism on this thread is extremely worrying and ironic considering how much the UK taxpayer has been paying out every year to kill people in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya.

NewDaddie · 08/08/2017 22:22

I can't believe that a seven year old has been called a potential psychopath, vile, a little shit, horrible.

Says more about the people saying those things than the child.

I can't believe you're so naive. Naive parents are among the worst parents and imo to blame for a lot of the selfish delinquent adults these days.

Children can be vile, horrible little shits at the same time as being innocent. The two are not mutually exclusive for children because they are not yet responsible for their own behaviour.

Zool69 · 09/08/2017 00:31

Fair play to you. My daughter is also 3 and also loves mini beasts. The 7 year old needs some serious disciplining. Horrible little shit. As you say, a psychopath in the making

Zool69 · 09/08/2017 00:39

Newdaddie - I didn't read your post before i wrote mine - i see we both chose the exact same descriptive term for the 7 year old!

AtSea1979 · 09/08/2017 00:50

mumzilla what is your job with psychopaths?

BlindYeo · 09/08/2017 00:57

YANBU OP. I applaud you. I can't stand to see wilful, deliberate cruelty to animals for enjoyment. Vile. And how can the kid learn better if the parent doesn't tell it?

Iwasjustabouttosaythat · 09/08/2017 03:43

YANBU. Anyone who says they just don't like animals is a grade A arsehole. She's right that her son will take after her and grow up to be an arsehole too. Very sad. Keep yourself and your DD well away from them. She Sounds like a lovely girl. How sad she had to see that.