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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to have said she's raising psychopaths.

568 replies

OohMavis · 05/08/2017 19:22

My friend and I have fallen out.

She has zero empathy for any type of animal or living thing other than herself and her children, basically. I find that utterly baffling and quite upsetting, and I don't think I'm unreasonable in that respect, but I might have overstepped a mark a bit by saying this, and I want some opinions.

She was here yesterday with her two children so our children could play together. They were playing in the garden, we were sitting out with them, chatting. DD came running to me, excited, saying she'd found a really big beetle, asking for me to come and see. She's 3 and obsessed with mini beasts. My friend's children overheard and came to see too. They ran ahead of me and my friend followed behind, by the time we'd arrived her son had STOMPED on this beautiful stag beetle (I think) and killed it Angry

DD was so fucking upset. Honestly, it was just such an unecessary thing to do. The kid is 7. It's inexcusable. I reacted, raised my voice a bit and said "Why did you do that?!" he just laughed and said he wanted to stand on it. I said that's a really nasty thing to do. Then bent down to see if he'd 'popped its head off'. He had, he was quite pleased with himself. His mother said nothing, I looked at her for a response and got a half-shrug.

DD was in tears by this point so I took her back to where we were sitting and friend joined me. I was comforting DD. She said, "I think they get it from me, they just don't like animals"
I replied, "well that's fine but they shouldn't kill them"
"Well it's not like it was a cat or something"
And this is where I got a bit angry and said "yes well it starts off that way doesn't it, with that attitude you're raising two psycopaths"

She was obviously offended. Sat there for twenty more minutes with a look on her face before making an excuse and leaving, awkwardly. Got a text later saying she thought I was completely out of order calling her kids psycopaths, kids step on insects and I'm overreacting. I didn't reply. She texted again telling me I'm a hypocrite since I'm not even vegetarian Hmm and she doesn't think she'll be coming again.

WIBU to mention the word psychopath. I was angry, it may have been over the top, but I still think it.

OP posts:
Badhairbigarse · 07/08/2017 22:09

"Can your child turn water into wine too? The sooner you accept your child is no bigger shit then hers, the sooner you can have real friends."

This!

Badhairbigarse · 07/08/2017 22:10

Repeatedly calling people idiots explains a lot.

Mittens1969 · 07/08/2017 22:27

@Badhairbigarse, re the cat, yes obviously they do torture and kill prey animals, I have four cats! The issue is that the mum and her DS just watched the whole time and didn't intervene to chase the cat away, which is what I'd have done. What shocked me is that the pigeon belonged to their neighbour, a homing pigeon. That was plain cruel.

MrsVoleTheVet · 07/08/2017 22:31

I think your reaction would have been understandable if your dd had squealed with excitement over a red balloon, and he had rushed over and popped it.

The fact it was a living creature amplifies this sentiment, vegan/vegetarian or not.

Badhairbigarse · 07/08/2017 22:32

No they didn't know for sure it was a pigeon from next door.

There was a bone in my garden the other day so something similar must have gone on.

Would you expect someone to shoo you in the middle of dinner?

Badhairbigarse · 07/08/2017 22:34

Yes it's weird if they were spectators if the event I suppose (although OP didn't say so it seems, which given her outspoken nature, makes me feel that the story has been embellished somewhat.

People watch lions eat prey etc in zoos and safaris.

Badhairbigarse · 07/08/2017 22:34

*of the

AtomHeart · 07/08/2017 22:38

WRT the cat and the pigeon, what about people filming/watching nature programmes where a wild animal chases, kills and devours its prey?

RiverTam · 07/08/2017 22:50

Is a cat a wild animal that depends on hunting prey in order to eat? No. So yet another nonsense analogy.

AtomHeart · 07/08/2017 22:59

I don't think my analogy is nonsense. A cat has a killer instinct and many of them do eat their prey. It is natural for a cat to kill birds. It is not learnt behaviour from its human servants. I appreciate that a cat will be fed cat food but you cannot teach a cat not to hunt. So, the analogy I was making is to do with watching an animal's natural behaviour, whether the animal is wild or domesticated.

Mittens1969 · 07/08/2017 23:00

I'm used to finding carcasses in the garden and inside the house, so I don't have an issue with cats hunting. But I also do intervene to rescue mice or birds if for example they manage to escape, I don't let them be tortured for an hour if I see it happening.

As for interfering with their meal, they don't normally eat their prey. Anyway, I give them plenty of Felix lol.

It was a fair bet the pigeon belonged to the neighbour, as he owned homing pigeons. I'd have been mortified, I wouldn't have just watched the process as if it was a floor show.

AtomHeart · 07/08/2017 23:04

Yes, I would have felt bad about it being the neighbour's pigeon too. However, once a cat has injured a bird, the bird is unlikely to recover. The only sensible thing is probably to kill the bird swiftly but not everyone can do that. I have never done that as I am too cowardly and I let nature take its course, even though I feel horrible about it.

My cats eat their prey regardless of the Iams that I feed them on.

Mittens1969 · 07/08/2017 23:19

I've had cats do that, normally they just leave them, or bring them into my house. My DDs are squeamish about that. Birds can sometimes fly away if the cat hasn't properly caught it, and mice can definitely get away. The problem is that the cat will generally continue to hunt a mouse so the escape is temporary. Or else it ends up hiding inside the house, yuck!

I suppose I formed an impression of the OP's friend and her boy by her lack of empathy, but admittedly they're people we don't know and we only have her version of events.

It's nice to meet another cat lover on here. Smile

Mumandteacher123 · 07/08/2017 23:29

Not sure what you're expecting here. You called her children psychopaths, there's no coming back from that. Whether they are or aren't is irrelevant, as you said yourself, you crossed that line. Fyi I think a boy stomping on a beetle makes him unkind in that moment but not a psychopath, it's a very strong word to use

Geordie1944 · 08/08/2017 00:34

do you really think not saying anything is an appropriate response to a child relishing stamping on a beetle and hoping its head has exploded when he knows a three year old wanted to show the living creature to her mother?

No I don't - which is why I didn't suggest that no-one should have remonstrated with this little boy - if you wish to take me to task at least do me the courtesy or reading what I said.

I said [what I think is true] that calling a seven year old boy a psychopath on the grounds that he killed an insect and appeared to enjoy it is an outrageous insult. Likening this small boy to Robert Thompson, Jon Venables and Mary Bell on such slender evidence is also fatheaded, but I didn't think I would get any thanks for pointing that out.

I am also very concerned about the quack psychology propounded by some of the contributors to this thread, and don't me started on those who appear to know no other mode of argument than ad hominem.

Donttouchthethings · 08/08/2017 00:51

OP, I can see your point. I get your use of the word psychopath and I think you did well. A lot of people might have sat by quietly but you actually confronted your friend and if you hadn't, who would? It's so important to teach chn to be kind and caring. Hopefully, she'll have a think about what you said and review her parenting style.

MissSeventies · 08/08/2017 01:25

Nope definately not being U. I would have asked them to leave. With that attitude the friendship would be over for me anyway.

SSYMONDS · 08/08/2017 01:48

For me, I would have been upset. And definitely wouldn't want them around - they just don't sound lovely. You might have been inflammatory in what you said, but why would you want their kids to play with your kids again anyway? Put it down to experience and move on?

Atenco · 08/08/2017 05:21

All life is of value and should not be taken needlessly. I totally agree but...

labelling children as psychopaths is saying that there is not remedy for them. So, in a way, people and the OP are saying that the stag beetle is more important than a child. Surely if people really care about life they would take such a child in hand and explain to them why they shouldn't kill a creature wantonly rather than stick such a nasty fatalistic label on them?

Gabilan · 08/08/2017 06:47

The issue is that the mum and her DS just watched the whole time and didn't intervene to chase the cat away, which is what I'd have done. What shocked me is that the pigeon belonged to their neighbour, a homing pigeon. That was plain cruel

From the bird's point of view, being killed by a cat is horrific, whether or not the bird happens to be a pet.

I have farm cats. I got them specifically to keep the mice and rats down, which they do very efficiently. I don't interrupt them when they've caught something. IME "rescuing" doesn't work out the way you intend because the animal is often wounded by the time you get to it. Sentimentally you think you're helping but the reality is that they'll often catch it again and start the whole process all over.

Sometimes I find live, healthy shrews in the house and I let those outside again. But if my cat gets a mouse, she's keeping it. I respect animals, but I don't want to share a home with an animal that lacks a sphincter muscle and I don't want to trap or poison them.

Watching the cat kill a pigeon - I wouldn't on its own chalk that up as incipient psychopathy.

Sparklyglitter · 08/08/2017 07:33

Psychopath is a bit strong but I wouldn't want my kids playing with other kids who's parents don't teach them right from wrong. We all say things in the heat of the moment that we may regret, but to be honest sounds like you are better off without this "friend" and her horrible children!

roundaboutthetown · 08/08/2017 07:46

Geordie1944 - you said, "perhaps your friend's reaction was more sensible than yours," to the OP. Forgive me if I think that means that saying nothing to the boy about his behaviour was the correct response, given that that is what she did. Confused

roundaboutthetown · 08/08/2017 07:51

Other than that, I agree with you. The boy did something horrid but not psychopathic, and should have been told why what he had done was wrong. I have a big problem with his mother's lack of a reaction, however. She appears to have said nothing whatsoever to her ds, but just to her friend, to say that her family don't like animals, as though that makes the behaviour OK and thus not worthy of any other kind of comment.

Badhairbigarse · 08/08/2017 07:51

"You'd be better of without your friend and horrible children."

Well I've heard it all now.

roundaboutthetown · 08/08/2017 07:53

And for the avoidance of doubt, it is not OK to get pleasure from destroying other animals, normto get pleasure from destroying something harmless and beautiful that someone else was admiring.

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