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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to have said she's raising psychopaths.

568 replies

OohMavis · 05/08/2017 19:22

My friend and I have fallen out.

She has zero empathy for any type of animal or living thing other than herself and her children, basically. I find that utterly baffling and quite upsetting, and I don't think I'm unreasonable in that respect, but I might have overstepped a mark a bit by saying this, and I want some opinions.

She was here yesterday with her two children so our children could play together. They were playing in the garden, we were sitting out with them, chatting. DD came running to me, excited, saying she'd found a really big beetle, asking for me to come and see. She's 3 and obsessed with mini beasts. My friend's children overheard and came to see too. They ran ahead of me and my friend followed behind, by the time we'd arrived her son had STOMPED on this beautiful stag beetle (I think) and killed it Angry

DD was so fucking upset. Honestly, it was just such an unecessary thing to do. The kid is 7. It's inexcusable. I reacted, raised my voice a bit and said "Why did you do that?!" he just laughed and said he wanted to stand on it. I said that's a really nasty thing to do. Then bent down to see if he'd 'popped its head off'. He had, he was quite pleased with himself. His mother said nothing, I looked at her for a response and got a half-shrug.

DD was in tears by this point so I took her back to where we were sitting and friend joined me. I was comforting DD. She said, "I think they get it from me, they just don't like animals"
I replied, "well that's fine but they shouldn't kill them"
"Well it's not like it was a cat or something"
And this is where I got a bit angry and said "yes well it starts off that way doesn't it, with that attitude you're raising two psycopaths"

She was obviously offended. Sat there for twenty more minutes with a look on her face before making an excuse and leaving, awkwardly. Got a text later saying she thought I was completely out of order calling her kids psycopaths, kids step on insects and I'm overreacting. I didn't reply. She texted again telling me I'm a hypocrite since I'm not even vegetarian Hmm and she doesn't think she'll be coming again.

WIBU to mention the word psychopath. I was angry, it may have been over the top, but I still think it.

OP posts:
GColdtimer · 07/08/2017 20:33

Neutrogena, really? There is quite a difference in killing something that could harm you, like a wasp and taking pleasure in killing something for the fun of it and watching it die. And for a parent not to then say "that is wrong".

As has been pointed out on this thread about a million times.

Hygge · 07/08/2017 20:34

Mumzy - you compared your boy to this boy, then you compared everybody's else's boys as well.

And you're still insisting that stamping on insects is something all kids, especially boys, do.

How many times? It's fucking not. Whether you believe me or not, my boy doesn't. Whether you believe all the other people on here who have said the same thing, their boys don't.

So many people disagreeing with you. We're not lying, we're not unrealistic, we're not claiming our children are angels who do no wrong. We're just telling you not to lump all boys in with this boy or yours. You can think in cliches all you like but you're wrong. But you're also so deeply entrenched in this position of yours on here by now that there really is no point.

madentitlement · 07/08/2017 20:40

YANBU. Kids can be such disgusting horrors, if my child did this to an innocent animal I'd definitely say something! My daughter once brought a snail home claiming it to be her new pet, regardless of how I feel about slime emitting beings, I allowed it. When we got it gone she proceeded to stamp on it for no apparent reason. I was really upset with her and gave her a severe talking to about killing innocent creatures. Boys can be pretty gross, my brother used to feed his hamster gangster long legs. My point is they can all be pretty minging..... is it worth losing a friend over?

madentitlement · 07/08/2017 20:41

Oh god some of the pretentious 'my kid would never do that!' How very cringe!🙈

Mittens1969 · 07/08/2017 20:43

Killing a wasp isn't the first thing I try to do when confronted by one. My first impulse is to run in the other direction as they terrify me lol. But what I actually do when I'm with the girls is open the door or a window and let it out. I put spiders outside too, if the girls are around, as they're scared of spiders. But I'm not afraid of them so I normally ignore them.

Bees should never be killed as they're under threat and they're protected.

The only things I have no qualms about killing are mosquitoes.

But the upsetting part in this story is that this boy was thrilled at chopping off the beetle's head. And the mum had form as she previously allowed the cat to torture a pigeon that belonged to her neighbour until it died, and the boy was watching.

Hygge · 07/08/2017 20:46

Not "my kid would never" but "my kid has never".

And it's true. He hasn't.

Jedimum1 · 07/08/2017 20:47

I'm with you. 100%. It's not the fact that he stamped on an insect, it's the fact that he did so to destroy your DD's joy AND to get pleasure out of it. Smiling smug because he had managed to pop it's head is not right. That his mum never said anything about either upsetting your DD or killing a harmless animal so cruelly, it's also very wrong. That you know by her admission that she let her kids watch their own cat torture, kill and feed on the neighbour's pigeon for an hour is definitely not normal. Yes, I think she's at risk of raising kids to behave in an antisocial manner, probably also to be cruel to other living things, maybe even to lack respect for both animals and people (as he was doing it to upset your DD). If not a psychopath, he might end up being a bully, an abuser, a violent person... Who knows? It's not that she's not educating him on basic sympathy, human relationships and respect for living things... It's that she seems to encourage the opposite by letting her kids do and watch those things. I'd be horrified. I'd probably have said the same. Maybe OTT, maybe not accurate, but as a pp said before she might have suggested a kid was being raised to be an arsonist if allowed to light up stuff without any control, so I'd probably have said the same. The key word is "raising", it was a criticism on a the mother. We might use certain expressions in an exaggerated way to make a point, this is one.

On the spider thread... Seriously? I'd be saying the same if someone had suggested to stomp on a spider "to see if it's head exploded" and laugh at it after checking that in fact, it did. That's not normal. I hate spiders, I stomp on them, I get no pleasure doing so and I ask my DH to take them outside alive if he's in the house. It's the taking pleasure that would concern me.

You don't want your kids to be around this kid. I wouldn't.

madentitlement · 07/08/2017 20:59

Hygge have you been by your child's side each second of every minute of everyday? The whole "my child would never do that" is just slightly incredulous. You assuming your child doesn't have these tendencies amuses me. Good luck!

madentitlement · 07/08/2017 20:59

Can your child turn water into wine too? The sooner you accept your child is no bigger shit then hers, the sooner you can have real friends.

Hygge · 07/08/2017 21:03

Again, has never, not would never.

The OP described a boy killing something and enjoying it. Other people have tarred all boys with the same brush. Plenty of people have said that it's not a "boy" thing, or something their child has ever done.

It's not. I might not spend every moment with my child but I think I know him better than some random on the internet. I'm sure he'll do plenty of stuff, but I'm fairly certain killing things and gloating about it won't be one of them. Still I'm glad you're amused. Simple minds and simple pleasures and all that. Good luck to you too. I think you need it.

madentitlement · 07/08/2017 21:07

Amitse 🙏

Gooseberrycrumble4 · 07/08/2017 21:12

Killing things for the thrill is unkind, spiteful and very telling. His mothers non reaction is the cause of his dreadful behaviour.

Gooseberrycrumble4 · 07/08/2017 21:16

Actually the bigger issue is the mothers lack of boundaries for her child and her lack of respect and empathy for living things.

Gooseberrycrumble4 · 07/08/2017 21:21

There's a huge difference between hanging a wasp catcher to prevent a small child being repeatedly stung in a garden and stamping on a harmless passing ladybid.

Badhairbigarse · 07/08/2017 21:27

Ha ha! Can't believe that someone has said that the beetle-killing child's family is 'beneath' the outraged mum who called two children potential psychos 😂

Also, bet it wasn't a stag beetle.

Geordie1944 · 07/08/2017 21:44

I think you know, OP, that it was outrageously unpleasant and insulting of you to accuse your friend of "raising psychopaths". You do realise, do you, that in saying this you are equating your friend's son with such as Robert Thompson, Jon Venables, Mary Bell? Young children do cruel things to insects almost in an experimental spirit, and if this was a one off occurrence perhaps your friend's reaction was more sensible than yours. Equally, your own reaction was a function of your daughter's [understandable] distress, and perhaps your friend needs to understand that. If you value this friendship then you need to apologise unreservedly for a hurtful over-reaction.

RiverTam · 07/08/2017 21:53

I'll ask again, badhair, have you read all the OP's posts? The OP you now think is a liar because no-one's agreeing with you? It's pretty hard to mistake a stag beetle for any other kind, unless you're a halfwit.

Geordie you genuinely think this was a child being experimental? And that, regardless, the mother (who, as you clearly haven't read all her posts either, I'll point out to you, happily watched her cat maul a pigeon to death without stepping in) didn't think to point out that's not the way forward, and that's fine? How exactly is saying nothing a good response? Him saying he wanted to see if it's head popped off strongly suggests he's done it before.

Whilst I can't believe some of the excusing that's going on here, it's good to see those posters are very much in the minority.

Badhairbigarse · 07/08/2017 21:55

Wouldn't say a minority, actually.

No I hadn't read about said cat mauling a pigeon. But isn't that's what cats do?!

AtomHeart · 07/08/2017 21:58

The boy obviously wanted to be in control over your daughter. How could anyone know this? Perhaps his perception of the situation was "Oh yikes, here is a horrid scary monster, I must kill it before it does any harm."
Incidentally, has anyone read Lord of the Flies?

I think there is awful bullying of Mumzy here just because she has a different opinion to the majority. However, she admirably rises above it and provides coherent and non emotive responses.

RiverTam · 07/08/2017 21:58

Read the thread, why don't you? And definitely a minority, when you take out the posters repeating themselves and the idiots who don't bother to RTFT before spouting off.

AtomHeart · 07/08/2017 22:02

As for all the psychopath comments. Do people know how long it takes to get diagnosed with a personality disorder? You don't just bring a child to the doctor, tell the doctor the child has deliberately squashed a beetle, and get an instant diagnosis of "potential psychopath". There would need to be a lot more investigation of a person's history than that.

Badhairbigarse · 07/08/2017 22:05

RiverTam.

Yep anyone who doesn't agree with you is an idiot. This is starting to remind me of other threads on here.

Read the OP and responded. Don't need to read the whole thing. But besides you've given me a catch up with the pigeon-killing-psychopath cat 😂

roundaboutthetown · 07/08/2017 22:07

Geordie1944 - do you really think not saying anything is an appropriate response to a child relishing stamping on a beetle and hoping its head has exploded when he knows a three year old wanted to show the living creature to her mother?

ringle · 07/08/2017 22:08

Just when I thought every aspect had been explored, now We have to figure out whether it really was a stag beetle.

Good job the OP isn't here to distract us.

RiverTam · 07/08/2017 22:08

Yes, you do need to read the whole thing if you don't want to come across as a self-important numpty who's opinion based on only some of the story isn't worth a damn. Nothing to do with agreeing with me.

But MN is full of people who make idiots of themselves by failing to RTFT, so you're in good company.